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Old 04-10-2013, 12:21 AM   #106
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Default Re: Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

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Originally Posted by Indian guy
MJ's the GOAT, but his championships came on teams with Top 3 talent every season
LOL, wut?

1991, 1992, and 1993 Bulls? Ummm, no.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:25 AM   #107
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Default Re: Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

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Originally Posted by Indian guy
That '08 Celtics, for whatever reason, couldn't play a decent road game to save their lives the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Remember, the 37-win Hawks took them to 7 games in the first round. Boston didn't get back to their 66-win regular season groove until the ECF, where they beat what was IMO the best Detroit team of the Wallace era, and then an even greater team in LA. Even if MJ would've led Cleveland past an unbelievably out-of-sync Boston team, there's no way he would've gotten past against far superiors teams in Detroit and LA. Not with this starting lineup:

Big Z
Ben Wallace
LeBron James
Wally Szcerbiak
Delonte West

Coach: Mike Brown

There's nothing close to resembling a star player here. MJ's the GOAT, but his championships came on teams with Top 3 talent every season, on top of being coached by the greatest. The '08 Cavaliers roster is a joke in comparison.

I agree, but so what?

The fact remains that the sorry Cavs team with an inferior Lebron came literally within a couple plays of winning that series. Not to mention Lebron played like complete ass the first few games of the series.

Peak MJ gets that done. If we are living in a world where the difference between peak MJ and 08 Lebron isn't enough to get that series...then, well...comparing players is pointless.

You can't say they had no chance...when they almost won the damn series. LOL
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:28 AM   #108
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Default Re: Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
You can't say they had no chance...when they almost won the damn series. LOL

Uhh, yeah, they might have beaten an out-of-whack Boston team, sure, but there's nothing to indicate they would've beaten Detroit or LA after that. How does that qualify as a chance?

Last edited by Indian guy : 04-10-2013 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:53 AM   #109
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Default Re: Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

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Originally Posted by Indian guy
Uhh, yeah, they might have beaten an out-of-whack Boston team, sure, but there's nothing to indicate they would've beaten Detroit or LA after that. How does that qualify as a chance?

Teams get "out of wack". It happens, and not that rarely. There's no reason to assume Boston wouldn't be out of wack if it was Jordan instead of Lebron they were playing.

And Detroit was "out of wack" for like 3 straight ECF after their last Finals appearance. From 06-08, at some point in the ECF they just seemed to play like they didn't give a f*ck and wouldn't mind their season ending. They played with no passion, intensity, or sense of urgency. 04-05, completely different story. But 06-08, I think almost any team with a transcedent player beats them.

And the 08 Lakers weren't that great. Kobe isn't a great Finals performer, and that was everyone else's first Finals appearance.

I would say that would qualify as a chance.

And by the way, I don't think they would get past Boston either even though peak Jordan is considerably better then 08 Lebron. I think this is something that people don't like to accept, but sometimes great teams do play down to their competition and just don't have the same sense of urgency until its absolutely necessary. And this era's Celtics maybe more guilty of this then any team in history. But the fact that they have that mindset means Jordan would still have a legit shot, just like Lebron did.

We're just talking about 08 though. I think they'd have a much better chance in 2010 with a better Cavs team vs. a worse Celtics team.

Last edited by guy : 04-10-2013 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:58 AM   #110
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Default Re: Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

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Originally Posted by Indian guy
Uhh, yeah, they might have beaten an out-of-whack Boston team, sure, but there's nothing to indicate they would've beaten Detroit or LA after that. How does that qualify as a chance?

Because even an "out of whack" boston team was still better than the Pistons.

Considering the Cavs with again...an inferior Lebron beat the Pistons in 06...I see no reason to see why they wouldn't do it again in 08 with MJ.

Lakers would have been tough, but if Kobe struggled that much against the Celtics. WTF do you think he's going to do against peak MJ and a very good defensive team in the Cavs.

Certainly plausible....and certainly a chance.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:09 AM   #111
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Default Re: Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

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Originally Posted by lpublic_enemyl
no he'd get blown out by 40 in the finals

Yes but he makes the finals

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Originally Posted by red1
I dont think he gave up at all. He had that bad game 5 but game 6 you could tell he was giving his best effort even though they lost. Celtics were just the better team since cleveland regressed defensively since they added shaq and antawn to the line-up.

I was actually just doing some light trolling, but I remember elbow gate and Mo Williams was the only player still fighting in the end of game 6. I don't know if Kobe wins with this team but I think he'd would have made at least 1 finals. The East was laughably week
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:43 AM   #112
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Default Re: Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Because even an "out of whack" boston team was still better than the Pistons.

Huh? Detroit's performance during the entirety of the '08 playoffs was far superior to what Boston showed in the first 2 rounds. They actually had a winning record on the road coming into the ECF, as opposed to Boston being 0-6, an unfathomable number for a dominant 66-win team. I don't think you're contemplating just how awful Boston's road play was the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. They were completely out of whack on the offensive end of the court. Averaging a pathetic 86 ppg on 42% shooting in those 6 losses. They were playing like a non-playoff team outside the Garden prior to the ECF. That all changed once they did get there. To base how an MJ-led Cleveland team would've fared against Detroit or LA based on their performance against Boston is asinine.

Quote:
Considering the Cavs with again...an inferior Lebron beat the Pistons in 06

Cleveland beat Detroit in 2007, which was an off season for them. Only 53 wins in a sorry EC, as opposed to 59 in 2008 in a far superior EC, not to mention posting almost twice the SRS. There's no comparison. Cleveland wouldn't have had a prayer against the '08 Pistons. Just a far superior team compared to their '07 selves.

Quote:
Lakers would have been tough, but if Kobe struggled that much against the Celtics.

Huh? '08 Celtics are arguably the GOAT defense. Nothing an individual defender or an 11th-ranked Cleveland defense could've done that would compare. Mind you, given the offensive load MJ would'e been carrying on Cleveland, he wouldn't have checked Kobe much as it is.

Quote:
Certainly plausible

On what? A competitive series against a team that totally underachieved? Cleveland's 2nd best player was a 33 year old Ilgauskas and they had a negative SRS as a team for the season for crying out loud. NEGATIVE!! They were the definition of mediocrity and a sure fire 15-win team without LeBron's herculean 30/8/7/48%/29 PER season. If something in MJ's career suggested he was capable of leading a mediocre squad all the way, then maybe we could entertain this. But MJ's championships came on terrific teams with the GOAT coach. He might have made(assuming Boston sucked again) it to the ECF, but that would've been the extent of it.

You're being a complete dumbass here. I'm done.

Last edited by Indian guy : 04-10-2013 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:51 AM   #113
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Default Re: Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

One championship? Are you kidding me? One of the greatest players to ever play the game settling with anything other than a ring?, he would have carried that scrub ass team to multiple championships.
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