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Old 04-08-2013, 03:27 PM   #61
DMAVS41
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
So you can't explain the massive difference in FT ratio between Bron and Durant..

What do you mean?

Durant is better at getting to the line. Done...

Makes much more sense than thinking the NBA has a conspiracy against Lebron, Kobe, and Melo....

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Old 04-08-2013, 03:28 PM   #62
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsGame
Watch the games.

No seriously, just watch the games.

If you still can't see a discrepancy then you're just a troll and/or stupid.

If a player is doing something like Durant is doing. What is more likely?

That the league has a conspiracy for Durant and against other elite players?

Or...that Durant is doing something that leads to results that other players aren't doing...or aren't doing as well?
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:36 PM   #63
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Durant has REALLY long arms. If i was playing against the guy i'm sure i would probably slap him on one of his long arms too.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:39 PM   #64
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Durant is reffed differently because he's a 6'9-6'10 twig. I don't think it has anything to do with him trying to "bait" refs or anything.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:48 PM   #65
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

From 16 feet and beyond;

Kobe takes 10.3 shots per game
Durant takes 8 shots per game

So if you assume that both players have the same chance to get fouled on the rest of their shots....you get;

Durant 17.9
Kobe 18.1

But let's not deduct the entire 2.3 difference because Kobe can get fouled. So let's say it's only a 1.5 difference to account for fouls.

Durant 17.9
Kobe 18.6

So, in this scenario, Kobe is taking .7 more shots per game that he can be fouled on than Durant.

We already all agreed that Durant is better at drawing fouls. We also all agreed that Durant takes less bad shots.

So is it really crazy to think that Durant should be going to the line a little less than 1 more time per game given such a similar amount of attempts in which both players can realistically get fouled?
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:54 PM   #66
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Everything you are saying is biased. Shooting more shots at the rim does not mean you should get to the ft line more.

The game was called much differently back then. So I can't really answer the thing about Shaq.

What I do know, is that Durant deserves to go to the line as often as he does in comparison to Kobe and Melo.

You seem to be stuck in your thinking.

What are shots at the rim total for Durant and Kobe?

How exactly is their any bias on my part? And you wanted to break down their FGA. You attempted to do so by giving them equal 3s, I did one better by showing their shots at the rim. I'll grant you that you're more likely to get fouled on 2s than 3s in general, but I don't know how you can argue that you're more likely to get fouled at the rim than you are in mid-range.

I'm stuck in my thinking? You in itially posted stats without ANY context to try to make a point, I've consistently made vastly superior arguments and yet you won't budge.

If you think Melo gets the same treatment Durant does then you don't watch Knick games, or you're the one whose biased. Melo was consistently going inside yesterday for example, and going in strong, yet other than the 2 intentional fouls late, he didn't have a free throw.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:04 PM   #67
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

It's the timing of the calls. Defenders can't play him like they do everyone. The amount of ***** calls he gets is what people hate. Fair officiating and I believe he is a 21ppg player. Still a good.player, but nowhere close to what he is now.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:12 PM   #68
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
What do you mean?

Durant is better at getting to the line. Done...

Makes much more sense than thinking the NBA has a conspiracy against Lebron, Kobe, and Melo....

So.. you have no explanation/evidence/anything then.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:13 PM   #69
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
How exactly is their any bias on my part? And you wanted to break down their FGA. You attempted to do so by giving them equal 3s, I did one better by showing their shots at the rim. I'll grant you that you're more likely to get fouled on 2s than 3s in general, but I don't know how you can argue that you're more likely to get fouled at the rim than you are in mid-range.

I'm stuck in my thinking? You in itially posted stats without ANY context to try to make a point, I've consistently made vastly superior arguments and yet you won't budge.

If you think Melo gets the same treatment Durant does then you don't watch Knick games, or you're the one whose biased. Melo was consistently going inside yesterday for example, and going in strong, yet other than the 2 intentional fouls late, he didn't have a free throw.

It's not really about shots at the rim. Melo takes 22 shots a game. Based on your numbers...that would mean 6 shots at the rim. With something like 4.5 for Durant I'm assuming.

Okay...great. Let's say Melo has a better chance to get fouled on those 6 attempts. But what about the other 16 attempts? So Melo is gaining 1.5 chances there, but losing 2 on threes. And losing another 1.5 on shots between 16-23 feet. So if we break it down like you want to. You are already at 2 shots that should be deducted off Melo's total as he shoots 1.5 more shots at the rim, but shoots 3.5 more shots from 16 feet and beyond.

That is why fga is useless. You keep telling me to watch the games. Well, I watch them and I see Kobe and Melo settling for bad shots far more often than Durant. Factually they shoot more long shots as well...even after accounting for shots at the rim. They are still taking roughly 2 more shots per game from long range.

So what do you think is more likely. That Melo and Kobe take more long shots and settle for, on average, more bad shots per game....and Durant is better at drawing fouls...or;

The league has a conspiracy against the likes of Kobe, Melo, and Lebron

How can you not see the difference in listing fga and then bitching about ft rate without thinking first.

On the evidence alone...you'd have to cut 2 shots a piece off of Kobe and Melo to do an apples to apple comparison and shot attempts...and that doesn't even speak to the total difference in shots where a foul is more or less likely.

But lets just say 2 for a common ground.

you then immediately get 17.9 vs 18.4 vs 20. so that rate you originally posted looks a lot different.

and then i'd ask. how much better is durant at drawing fouls? can you quantify it? like 5% better. 10% better. what do you think?

Then you need to factor in that Durant plays more minutes per game. Small difference, but he's on the court more so more chance he can get fouled and go to the line. .3 more minutes than Kobe and 1.5 more minutes than Melo.

And when you start to add it all up...you start to see that the difference isn't all that you made it out to be and is easily explained by Durant just being better at drawing fouls.

And we also really need to see how many techs and defensive 3 second free throws these guys take. I have no clue who takes the most, but obviously Durant shoots them all for the Thunder because he's the best ft shooter in the league. I know Nash took them a lot of the time for the Lakers.

Last edited by DMAVS41 : 04-08-2013 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:14 PM   #70
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
So.. you have no explanation/evidence/anything then.

What?

You want me to provide evidence that Durant is better at getting to the line? I just did...he shoots more free throws.

What is your evidence that Lebron should be getting to the line more often?

WTF are you talking about?
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:22 PM   #71
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
It's not really about shots at the rim. Melo takes 22 shots a game. Based on your numbers...that would mean 6 shots at the rim. With something like 4.5 for Durant I'm assuming.

5.7 at the rim for Melo, 4.0 for Durant.

Okay...great. Let's say Melo has a better chance to get fouled on those 6 attempts. But what about the other 16 attempts? So Melo is gaining 1.5 chances there, but losing 2 on threes. And losing another 1.5 on shots between 16-23 feet. So if we break it down like you want to. You are already at 2 shots that should be deducted off Melo's total as he shoots 1.5 more shots at the rim, but shoots 3.5 more shots from 16 feet and beyond.[/quote]

Again, you're not much more likely to get fouled shooting a mid-range than you are shooting a 3.

Quote:
That is why fga is useless. You keep telling me to watch the games. Well, I watch them and I see Kobe and Melo settling for bad shots far more often than Durant. Factually they shoot more long shots as well...even after accounting for shots at the rim. They are still taking roughly 2 more shots per game from long range.

FTA without FGA are useless. Yes, Melo is taking more shots from long range, but he's also taking roughly 2 more shots at the rim.

Quote:
So what do you think is more likely. That Melo and Kobe take more long shots and settle for, on average, more bad shots per game....and Durant is better at drawing fouls...or;

The league has a conspiracy against the likes of Kobe, Melo, and Lebron

How can you not see the difference in listing fga and then bitching about ft rate without thinking first.

I thought everything through, you're the one who clearly didn't and is ignoring the best evidence while desperately trying to angle and save face. Sorry, but I'm not fooled by it.

As far as Melo, I don't think he's a favorite player of the league, or around the league ever since some of his off the court issues in his first 2 seasons, the brawl in '06 or the trade demand. Plus, he's much stronger physically which doesn't help.

I think lebron has also reached the point where he's so dominant that he gets penalized for it compared to Durant, especially since we've never seen a perimeter player like him physically.

Quote:
On the evidence alone...you'd have to cut 2 shots a piece off of Kobe and Melo to do an apples to apple comparison and shot attempts...and that doesn't even speak to the total difference in shots where a foul is more or less likely.

Fouls are most likely at the rim, so again, you're dodging the best points as fast as you can.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:23 PM   #72
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
What?

You want me to provide evidence that Durant is better at getting to the line? I just did...he shoots more free throws.

What is your evidence that Lebron should be getting to the line more often?

WTF are you talking about?
Theres two sides to FTs. The player and the ref. You are very naive if you think certain players arent coddled more than others. It varies from player to player.

Lebron gets fouled more than Durant.. easily. Gets pushed around a lot more. Durant is better at exxagerating contact though.. mostly because he doesnt have a strong frame. And thats why refs call more fouls for him.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:35 PM   #73
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
5.7 at the rim for Melo, 4.0 for Durant.

Okay...great. Let's say Melo has a better chance to get fouled on those 6 attempts. But what about the other 16 attempts? So Melo is gaining 1.5 chances there, but losing 2 on threes. And losing another 1.5 on shots between 16-23 feet. So if we break it down like you want to. You are already at 2 shots that should be deducted off Melo's total as he shoots 1.5 more shots at the rim, but shoots 3.5 more shots from 16 feet and beyond.

Again, you're not much more likely to get fouled shooting a mid-range than you are shooting a 3.



FTA without FGA are useless. Yes, Melo is taking more shots from long range, but he's also taking roughly 2 more shots at the rim.



I thought everything through, you're the one who clearly didn't and is ignoring the best evidence while desperately trying to angle and save face. Sorry, but I'm not fooled by it.

As far as Melo, I don't think he's a favorite player of the league, or around the league ever since some of his off the court issues in his first 2 seasons, the brawl in '06 or the trade demand. Plus, he's much stronger physically which doesn't help.

I think lebron has also reached the point where he's so dominant that he gets penalized for it compared to Durant, especially since we've never seen a perimeter player like him physically.



Fouls are most likely at the rim, so again, you're dodging the best points as fast as you can.[/quote]

Fouls are more likely to happen at the rim. But they are also less likely to happen from 16 feet out. And the net of that is minus 2 for Melo. Sorry...he takes 4 more shots from 16 feet out per game.

And the shots at the rim are misleading because Melo often goes in out of control and throws the ball up just to get his own miss. But I won't even get into reality.

No, sorry, it's not about fga...it's about how many fga are you taking in which you can or try to draw a foul. Taking all the bad shots Melo and Kobe do...more than makes up for the increased fg attempts.

A player could take 25 shots a game and it wouldn't matter if those extra 7 shots a game were shots in which getting fouled is highly unlikely.

Durant could be more likely to be fouled on long shots...making the difference even bigger there. Not only does he take less, but he's more likely to draw a foul. Same could be said for mid range...etc.

How much better is Durant at drawing fouls? Quantify it. That seems to be missing from your analysis on what Durant does or doesn't deserve.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:36 PM   #74
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Theres two sides to FTs. The player and the ref. You are very naive if you think certain players arent coddled more than others. It varies from player to player.

Lebron gets fouled more than Durant.. easily. Gets pushed around a lot more. Durant is better at exxagerating contact though.. mostly because he doesnt have a strong frame. And thats why refs call more fouls for him.

Yes. Durant is better at selling the contact. Totally agree...which is why he's better at getting to the line.

Still confused as to how you think that helps your case.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:38 PM   #75
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Default Re: Do people really believe KD is only a good scorer because of his free throws?

Durant is the best scorer in the NBA, by a VERY large margin based on ABILITIES.
But he's a mental midget that can't take the role of a real leader
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