Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-31-2013, 07:32 PM   #1
Djahjaga
High School JV MVP
 
Djahjaga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 683
Djahjaga has decent reputation
Default On the topic of eras

I had this idea from the Pauk adjusted stats thread (can be found here: http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294854).

Clearly pace and style were different back then, as well as external things like traveling, schedule, etc. So, what can we actually say about older eras vs. newer ones? No agenda; I love all eras of basketball pretty equally. I find myself arguing in circles when talking about this subject (Could players then play today? How successful/unsuccessful would they be? etc.)

Some pertinent questions to get the discussion going. Don't necessarily have to answer all of them:

Why are some of the most mind-boggling stats from older eras?
What does that imply about the relative strength of the league then to now? What does it say about the way basketball (or basketball trends) has evolved or changed?
What are we to make of older players actually saying that players now are faster and stronger*?
How, if at all, can/could we make sense/compare the players/league then to the players/league now?**


And please, let's do our best to just ignore the troll posts, because I'm sure there'll be plenty of them, if this thread ever takes off.

Cheers!


*most recently I read that Gail Goodrich said something like this. I would assume he means across the league players are stronger and faster. No one's telling me Wilt wouldn't be one of the most athletic players in the league today.

**if I'm giving you full hypothetical ability, there's no point in saying "You can't compare them."
Djahjaga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 07:42 PM   #2
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 13,353
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Thing about eras to me is....the more I think about it im not sure how to define them. You have kids(I hope...) on here talking about what prime Kobe would do in this era after he has good games vs teams where...9 guys were playing in his prime.

People will claim Bird couldnt do this or that....and with a bad back he has a near 50 point triple double guarded by guys who played into the 2000s.

Say people like Mcgee would dominate the 60s when he played guys smaller than average 60s bigmen in college and didnt dominate them.

So much of this era talk is just pulled out of the ass of someone who doesnt even remember the 90s.....

Many reasons for the numbers changing...but the players have been on roughly the same level as long as ive been watching(mid 80s).

And I was watching a bunch of people who came into the league in the 70s.....

Roert Parish came out in 1976(at age 23 mind you..) and at 40 he dropped 26/9 on 90% shooting on a guy who was one of the best defensive bigmen...in 2007.

The more I think aout it I have a hard time dismissing just about any star from 1960s or so to now. Some had numbers better or worse than they would in other times....on other teams. But the basketball they were capable of?

Eh.

Im not sure era matters.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 07:47 PM   #3
chips93
Very good NBA starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,162
chips93 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterchips93 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterchips93 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterchips93 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterchips93 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterchips93 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterchips93 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterchips93 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Roert Parish came out in 1976(at age 23 mind you..) and at 40 he dropped 26/9 on 90% shooting on a guy who was one of the best defensive bigmen...in 2007.

The more I think aout it I have a hard time dismissing just about any star from 1960s or so to now. Some had numbers better or worse than they would in other times....on other teams. But the basketball they were capable of?

do people really say that the 70s/80s was a much weaker era? ive never heard that, just that the rules, and how the game is played have changed.
chips93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 07:53 PM   #4
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 13,353
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Give it a couple hours and some 19 year old will be claiming some white star from the 80s or 90s couldnt play today. Its more common than it should be.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 07:57 PM   #5
Budadiiii
Banned
 
Budadiiii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Akron
Posts: 9,913
Budadiiii has an incredible reputation hereBudadiiii has an incredible reputation hereBudadiiii has an incredible reputation hereBudadiiii has an incredible reputation hereBudadiiii has an incredible reputation hereBudadiiii has an incredible reputation hereBudadiiii has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Larry Bird could not play in today's league. He's an era specific player.

Shit is painfully obvious.
Budadiiii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 07:59 PM   #6
RoundMoundOfReb
Objective Poster
 
RoundMoundOfReb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,468
RoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Give it a couple hours and some 19 year old will be claiming some white star from the 80s or 90s couldnt play today. Its more common than it should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budadiiii
Larry Bird could not play in today's league. He's an era specific player.

Shit is painfully obvious.


RoundMoundOfReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 07:59 PM   #7
brandonislegend
Old School Cool
 
brandonislegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,835
brandonislegend is considered somewhat coolbrandonislegend is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budadiiii
Larry Bird could not play in today's league. He's an era specific player.

Shit is painfully obvious.

If Dirk can play today, Bird would be a killer.
brandonislegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:02 PM   #8
NumberSix
Big Booty Hoes!!
 
NumberSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Internets
Posts: 23,193
NumberSix is popular on this boardNumberSix is popular on this boardNumberSix is popular on this boardNumberSix is popular on this board
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by chips93
do people really say that the 70s/80s was a much weaker era? ive never heard that, just that the rules, and how the game is played have changed.
People are really weird. Do they really think humans have drastically evolved in the last 30 years? Lol. I mean, how dumb can people be?

You could actually make a case that in the last couple centuries, humans are actually getting weaker.
NumberSix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:05 PM   #9
jlip
Good college starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Memphis
Posts: 3,321
jlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djahjaga
I had this idea from the Pauk adjusted stats thread (can be found here: http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294854).

Why are some of the most mind-boggling stats from older eras?

From the other thread:

Isn't it really only rebounding and Wilt's scoring? He's the only player whose scoring is mind boggling. I think it's readily admitted by most that there were more rebounds during the 60's, but remove Wilt's scoring and nobody from the 60's averaged anymore ppg during any season than MJ's or Kobe's best season. (I know about Baylor's '62 season, but he only played a little over half a season.)
jlip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:05 PM   #10
AngelEyes
Sentenza
 
AngelEyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: City of Wind
Posts: 3,364
AngelEyes has a near all-star reputation hereAngelEyes has a near all-star reputation hereAngelEyes has a near all-star reputation hereAngelEyes has a near all-star reputation hereAngelEyes has a near all-star reputation hereAngelEyes has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
People are really weird. Do they really think humans have drastically evolved in the last 30 years? Lol. I mean, how dumb can people be?

You could actually make a case that in the last couple centuries, humans are actually getting weaker.

Yes, this whole "evolution of the athlete" thing has been greatly exaggerated.
AngelEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:10 PM   #11
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 13,353
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: On the topic of eras

To be fair to the "Bigger/stronger/faster" crowd...im sure they dont think evolution works in 20 years....but that increased interest and vast sums of money being on the line have made exceptional athletes more likely to be found young and groomed for the game.

Which I dont disagree with. I just dont think it makes them better at basketball.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:16 PM   #12
tmacattack33
NBA rookie of the year
 
tmacattack33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,309
tmacattack33 has not been impressing people
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
To be fair to the "Bigger/stronger/faster" crowd...im sure they dont think evolution works in 20 years....but that increased interest and vast sums of money being on the line have made exceptional athletes more likely to be found young and groomed for the game.

Which I dont disagree with. I just dont think it makes them better at basketball.

There's also just more people period now than there were a generation ago.

More people = bigger talent pool

Today's top 3 players are the top 3 out of 6 billion.

In 1990, the top 3 were the top 3 out of 5 billion.

Not to mention the game is much more international now than it was in 1990 (let alone 1970).
tmacattack33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:38 PM   #13
jstern
College star
 
jstern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,874
jstern has decent reputationjstern has decent reputation
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Thing about eras to me is....the more I think about it im not sure how to define them. You have kids(I hope...) on here talking about what prime Kobe would do in this era after he has good games vs teams where...9 guys were playing in his prime.

People will claim Bird couldnt do this or that....and with a bad back he has a near 50 point triple double guarded by guys who played into the 2000s.

Say people like Mcgee would dominate the 60s when he played guys smaller than average 60s bigmen in college and didnt dominate them.

So much of this era talk is just pulled out of the ass of someone who doesnt even remember the 90s.....

Many reasons for the numbers changing...but the players have been on roughly the same level as long as ive been watching(mid 80s).

And I was watching a bunch of people who came into the league in the 70s.....

Roert Parish came out in 1976(at age 23 mind you..) and at 40 he dropped 26/9 on 90% shooting on a guy who was one of the best defensive bigmen...in 2007.

The more I think aout it I have a hard time dismissing just about any star from 1960s or so to now. Some had numbers better or worse than they would in other times....on other teams. But the basketball they were capable of?

Eh.

Im not sure era matters.

Another thing to consider about eras is that people mimic each other. It's hard to explain, but I remember someone complaining about the way people dunked in the 80s. That it was inferior. It had it's own distinct style because that's what was considered cool at the time, yet if you take those players and put them here now, and take players from now and put them back in the 80s, they too will mimic each other.


Or take someone like Jordan, his dribbling style in the 80s was somewhat different than his style in the early 2000s. He's still the same player, same skill level, but style is somewhat different, with the one as a 40 year old man looking more modern. Modern not in a superior sense, but in a more recent sense.


So what I'm saying is that these guys were professionals back then, but some people might look at a Jerry West literally as if he's an awkward amateur, and that he wouldn't be able to survive right now. But I believe style is something that people naturally adapt to.


It's all actually really hard to explain and I'm tired.

Last edited by jstern : 03-31-2013 at 08:50 PM.
jstern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:48 PM   #14
jstern
College star
 
jstern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,874
jstern has decent reputationjstern has decent reputation
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
People are really weird. Do they really think humans have drastically evolved in the last 30 years? Lol. I mean, how dumb can people be?

You could actually make a case that in the last couple centuries, humans are actually getting weaker.

I mean the way evolution works, physically people will become weaker, but interestingly, skull show that the human brain has been getting smaller the last 10,000 years in a very steady fashion. That's really odd.

I haven't read this page, but I assume it talks about what I'm talking about

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/sep...g#.UVjYo1dNVI0

I remember also reading that the technological advancements that we have made (thanks to very few smart people) has made life less challenging for us and as such, more dumb people are getting to pass down their genes, and so we're becoming dumber. But that as technology keeps progressing and getting more complicated, then we will continue getting smarter.
jstern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:50 PM   #15
Djahjaga
High School JV MVP
 
Djahjaga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 683
Djahjaga has decent reputation
Default Re: On the topic of eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstern
Another thing to consider about eras is that people mimic each other. It's hard to explain, but I remember someone complaining about the way people dunked in the 80s. That it was inferior. It had it's own distinct style because that's what was considered cool at the time, yet if you take those players and put them here now, and take players from now and put them back in the 80s, they too will mimic each other. Or take someone like Jordan, his dribbling style in the 80s was somewhat different than his style in the early 2000s. He's still the same player, same skill level, but style is somewhat different, with the one as a 40 year old man looking more modern. Modern not in a superior sense, but in a more recent sense.


So what I'm saying is that these guys were professionals back then, but some people might look at a Jerry West literally as if he's an awkward amateur, and that he wouldn't be able to survive right now. But I believe style is something that people naturally adapt to.


It's all actually really hard to explain and I'm tired.


I know EXACTLY what you mean about dunking and dribbling. Glad someone else said it.
Djahjaga is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:57 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy