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Old 03-20-2013, 04:14 AM   #31
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

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Originally Posted by LEFT4DEAD
On the other hand Lebron destroyed them even more than Wade. Game 5, do I need to say more.
Yes, you should mention that it was 3 years later and that Ben Wallace guy was playing for another team. That 07 series has little relevance in this comparison
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:22 AM   #32
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

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Originally Posted by chazzy
Yes, you should mention that it was 3 years later and that Ben Wallace guy was playing for another team. That 07 series has little relevance in this comparison
Didnt he average about 27 on 50% in 06 season in semis against that team, and remember, he was the only guy to stop on that Cavs team. And that before Wade literally destroyed them in the East finals. Im big fan of that team, but there is no way they could stop Miami's trio + elite shooting. You are reaching here.
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:35 AM   #33
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

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Originally Posted by LEFT4DEAD
Didnt he average about 27 on 50% in 06 season in semis against that team, and remember, he was the only guy to stop on that Cavs team. And that before Wade literally destroyed them in the East finals. Im big fan of that team, but there is no way they could stop Miami's trio + elite shooting. You are reaching here.
Reaching what? Just pointed something out about using that 07 series in this comparison
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:39 AM   #34
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

the Heat
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:19 AM   #35
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

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Originally Posted by chazzy
Reaching what? Just pointed something out about using that 07 series in this comparison
Yeah, there's something to be said for that. The '04 Pistons varied a lot more from their '05 and '06 teams (and '07) than we may realize. 2004 was just about the precipice of Detroit's run, and not just because they were champions. I'd say it was their hottest spot of primes, with every starter still in their 20's and Ben Wallace still near the tip top of his abilities (though maybe not quite as impressive as he was in '03).

Moreover, Detroit did add Antonio McDyess in subsequent years, but it was a recovering, older McDyess and I'm not sure any team beyond '04 was ever as deep as that championship squad. Mehmet Okur, Elden Campbell, Corliss Williamson, Mike James, and Lindsey Hunter all played valuable roles and all except Hunter (who was 35 by 2006) were lost after '04.

As such, instead of employing a trapping, smothering defense that went ten deep in '04, we were looking at guys like Maurice Evans, Tony Delk, and the Carlos' (Delfino and Arroyo) who just weren't of the same ilk. Larry Brown still employed an effective defensive strategy in '05 (before Flip Saunders took over in '06) but without the depth, there was at least a little bit of a let up.

On the other hand, I also believe Dwyane Wade is less deadly than he was in '05 and '06. I am not saying he's washed up or anything close. Rather, I just think he was on a complete other level at that point in his career and he's at least kind of come back down to Earth. Now, he's in his 30's and he'd be facing two prime, extremely well conditioned backcourtmen on the other side. And again, that doesn't mean he'd be at a disadvantage, but I do not see him dominating to the extent his did in '06 (and at times in '05).
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:10 AM   #36
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

'05 pistons were basically the same as the '04 pistons. same coach, same starting 5. the biggest difference is the '06 team which regressed a bit in defense but improved a bit in offense.

either way, wade has his way with the '05 and '06 team. though '13 wade isnt the same athlete as '05-'06 wade, i still dont think he'd have a problem. what made wade succeed against those pistons team while kobe failed was that wade played a much smarter game. and he's a smarter player today than he was 7 years ago.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:54 AM   #37
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

Quote:
Originally Posted by f0und
'05 pistons were basically the same as the '04 pistons. same coach, same starting 5. the biggest difference is the '06 team which regressed a bit in defense but improved a bit in offense.

either way, wade has his way with the '05 and '06 team. though '13 wade isnt the same athlete as '05-'06 wade, i still dont think he'd have a problem. what made wade succeed against those pistons team while kobe failed was that wade played a much smarter game. and he's a smarter player today than he was 7 years ago.
I believe Wade's ability to succeed in '05 and '06 went well beyond intelligence. The Detroit Pistons competed against a lot of players who played smart games. I do not believe '13 Wade would experience the same level of success against an '04 Pistons team as he may have in his mid 20's.

Further, I believe the lack of one of the most dominant inside forces of all-time (Shaquille O'Neal) also changes many aspects of how these teams would matchup. Dwyane Wade went big against Detroit in '06, but I think the Heat's victory largely had to do with the fact O'Neal was averaging 22ppg and 11rpg in that series on 65% shooting. Chris Bosh is outstanding, but certainly would not demand the same defensive commitment from Detroit's front line, perhaps allowing for a different set of defensive schemes focused more of limiting an attack largely stemming from the perimeter (James and Wade) as opposed to attempting to contain both inside and out.

Also, I feel it's worth noting that Wade averaged 25ppg on 44% shooting in the '05 series, and the Pistons prevailed. In '06, Ben Wallace's last year in Detroit and many of the Pistons two years older (and now over 30), LeBron James averaged 26ppg on 44% shooting and the Pistons once again won the series.

Clearly, having both of those players on the same team (along with Chris Bosh) creates a new set of issues. But it's not as if Wade and James cake walked through the Pistons in every single matchup during those mid-2000's series, particularly while the Pistons' window was still a little open.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:12 AM   #38
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

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Originally Posted by Rake2204
I believe Wade's ability to succeed in '05 and '06 went well beyond intelligence. The Detroit Pistons competed against a lot of players who played smart games. I do not believe '13 Wade would experience the same level of success against an '04 Pistons team as he may have in his mid 20's.

Further, I believe the lack of one of the most dominant inside forces of all-time (Shaquille O'Neal) also changes many aspects of how these teams would matchup. Dwyane Wade went big against Detroit in '06, but I think the Heat's victory largely had to do with the fact O'Neal was averaging 22ppg and 11rpg in that series on 65% shooting. Chris Bosh is outstanding, but certainly would not demand the same defensive commitment from Detroit's front line, perhaps allowing for a different set of defensive schemes focused more of limiting an attack largely stemming from the perimeter (James and Wade) as opposed to attempting to contain both inside and out.

Also, I feel it's worth noting that Wade averaged 25ppg on 44% shooting in the '05 series, and the Pistons prevailed. In '06, Ben Wallace's last year in Detroit and many of the Pistons two years older (and now over 30), LeBron James averaged 26ppg on 44% shooting and the Pistons once again won the series.

Clearly, having both of those players on the same team (along with Chris Bosh) creates a new set of issues. But it's not as if Wade and James cake walked through the Pistons in every single matchup during those mid-2000's series, particularly while the Pistons' window was still a little open.

wade's numbers in '05 are kinda misleading. leading up to the ECF, wade was having an outstanding playoff run. even though he was only in his second year, he was putting up playoff numbers only matched by legends. after sweeping the first two rounds, the big question became how he would handle the same pistons squad that humiliated kobe and the lakers the year before. since the first two rounds were cake, this was to be the first real test.

in game 1, wade had a terrible game and everyone was ready to claim that whatever they did to kobe, they are going to do to wade. but in the second game, wade figured the defense out and scored 40. from then on, the pistons no longer looked like the feared vaunted defense. and wade had success against them as if they were just another team, doing whatever he wanted. that is until wade suffered the rib injury. his numbers went back down and the the heat lost in 7.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:35 AM   #39
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

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Originally Posted by f0und
wade's numbers in '05 are kinda misleading. leading up to the ECF, wade was having an outstanding playoff run. even though he was only in his second year, he was putting up playoff numbers only matched by legends. after sweeping the first two rounds, the big question became how he would handle the same pistons squad that humiliated kobe and the lakers the year before. since the first two rounds were cake, this was to be the first real test.

in game 1, wade had a terrible game and everyone was ready to claim that whatever they did to kobe, they are going to do to wade. but in the second game, wade figured the defense out and scored 40. from then on, the pistons no longer looked like the feared vaunted defense. and wade had success against them as if they were just another team, doing whatever he wanted. that is until wade suffered the rib injury. his numbers went back down and the the heat lost in 7.
Ah yes, I forgot about the rib injury. I still maintain Wade's ability and impact in '05 and '06 would dwarf what he'd be able to do against Detroit as a 30+ year old player in 2013. And again, I also feel Shaquille O'Neal's presence played a significant role in Wade's run. Wade was great enough on his own, let alone when the opposition had to only keep a partial eye on the perimeter so they could concentrate on trying to get around a behemoth like O'Neal.

Through and through, I still have a tough time deciding who'd win this series either way. We can talk about James and Wade, but I think it'd come down to what kind of series their support would have. Did LeBron James play a huge role in Miami's title last year? Definitely. But would they have won were it not for, say, Shane Battier stepping up and going bonkers? I'm not so sure. Similarly, when the Heat triumphed over Detroit in '06, it wasn't just about Wade and O'Neal, but James Posey stepping up, and Jason Williams going crazy in the clincher (hitting something like 10 shots in a row).

The '04 Pistons appeared well versed in neutralizing portions of an opponent's gameplan that they knew could be affected. They didn't put all their eggs in one basket and decide to try to do whatever possible to shut down Shaquille O'Neal. They kind of accepted their fate there. O'Neal was going to be O'Neal. Instead, Detroit seemed content in single covering O'Neal while looking to reduce or eliminate the potential threats posed by the unsung folks who'd won games for LA leading up to that point: Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Kareem Rush, etc.

As such, in an '04/'13 matchup, I think LeBron James would have a chance of nearly leading the Heat to victory on his own on any given day (as he did in game 5 in '07). But just as often, I think it may come down to the supporting cast, not just James, Wade and Bosh. And if Larry Brown and company were able to limit the effectiveness of Allen, Miller, Chalmers, Battier and company, I think Detroit would clearly have an opportunity to win this series.

Either way, it'd be a battle of style and system. It'd be a running Heat team that's won 23 straight against a Pistons team who held five consecutive opponents to 69 points or less, finished the regular season 20-4, took down the previous year's NBA finalist (the Nets, who took San Antonio to six games in '03), defeated the #1 seeded Pacers, and then destroyed the Lakers dynasty in the Finals.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:00 PM   #40
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

lebrick lead teams are not capable of beating teams with great team work(see 2011 finals for best proof). lebron ball only works against old ass teams who should've retired 5 years ago or against young teams who just try to win on talent alone like okc tried last year.

pistons in 4.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:38 PM   #41
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

Heat in 5 or 6

Wade loved playing the Pistons.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:11 PM   #42
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

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what happen in 05?

Wade got injured. If he didn't then they would have more of a chance to beat them. This Heat team is better than any team the Pistons ever faced in the playoffs. Tho the Pistons had a great rim protectector and their defense is one of the best if not the best, you have to take into account the rule changing.

But I got the Heat on this one.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:27 PM   #43
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

Lol @ every Kobe tard picking Detroit.


Obvious is obvious.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:29 PM   #44
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

Stars win in the playoffs. Proven time and time again.
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:27 PM   #45
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Default Re: 04 Detroit Pistons vs 13 Miami Heat Which Team Wins the East?

Heat.

People prop up the 04 Pistons a little too much to compensate for the Lakers getting smoked.
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