Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-17-2013, 06:08 PM   #106
ThaRegul8r
National High School Star
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,142
ThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBird
I like Duncan, he is amongst the best of the 2nd tier of all-time greats but Bird is in the discussion for GOAT. Duncan isn't, and that's the difference.

Not saying he should be, but since Duncan was perceived as "boring," he'd never be talked about in that vein. Bird with his trash-talking and doing stuff like telling defenders what the play was going to be before nailing the shot on them while they were expecting the play, asking everyone who was going to finish second in the Three-Point Shootout and then winning it, etc., had more "swag" than Duncan, which automatically puts Duncan at a disadvantage in such a comparison.
ThaRegul8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 06:14 PM   #107
Legends66NBA7
Birds of a Feather
 
Legends66NBA7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 18,059
Legends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableLegends66NBA7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r
Yeah, because he's being compared to some scrub here, right?


Yeah, I really hate both the Bird and Duncan camps that have said this.

It's "not even close" or "easily ____" from the start of page 1 till now... when it couldn't be further from the truth.

Fortunately, I just wanted to see a good honest debate for the selections from both sides and I actually have for the most part.
Legends66NBA7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 06:57 PM   #108
TheBigVeto
Negging Me Is Gay
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,135
TheBigVeto has a bad reputationTheBigVeto has a bad reputationTheBigVeto has a bad reputationTheBigVeto has a bad reputation
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Bird. But not by much. Duncan is greatest player since Michael Jordan.
TheBigVeto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 07:13 PM   #109
Whoah10115
Linja Status
 
Whoah10115's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,968
Whoah10115 is starting to rub some people the wrong way
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Shaq at his peak was a very good defensive anchor.




Very good defender those two seasons, OK...but anchor? He wasn't an anchor of any kind.
Whoah10115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 07:41 PM   #110
Carbine
Facts Are Misleading
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Court Near You
Posts: 7,817
Carbine has decent reputationCarbine has decent reputation
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

You're the only one saying that. Was he Duncan? Garnett? No.

But you don't need to be the best of your generation to be considered an anchor. Due to his sheer size, height, strength and athletic ability he was an intimidating player down low. He was an anchor for those Laker teams, clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Jackson
We were funneling guys baseline and sideline, and overplaying everybody so they'd be forced to deal with Shaq in the lane.

The GOAT coach of his era built the defense around funneling guys to Shaq and won back to back to back titles. But nah.....he's no anchor. Right?
Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 10:06 PM   #111
LeBird
Good High School Starter
 
LeBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 926
LeBird has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Playoff performer. This is where I think Duncan surpasses Bird. Duncan just simply is the better playoff performer...and honestly, that is what matters the most. How these guys perform in the playoffs.

Er, let's be clear: Bird had a far tougher era - and that includes the post-season - to contend with than Duncan. It's not really debatable. And Bird was still awesome. That the Celtics won 3 titles in an era where they were contending with the best team of all-time - that had 2 of the top 5 players of all time (let alone the likes of Cooper, Worthy, Scott, etc) - is incredible. He also had to contend with the Sixers, Pistons, Bucks and Rockets - the latter two would have been regular title contenders, at the least, in Duncan's era.

It also meant that his 'not once having an all-nba player' (which is a stupid qualification, since he has had great teammates and fantastically 'built' teams in general) doesn't really count against him. Transport him to the 80s and he wins 0 titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
I think you need to go back and watch some '99, '00, '01 Shaq if you think he didn't make his teammates better by putting them in advantageous situations.

Shaq didn't make his teammates better. He made himself better - he played at a higher/better version of himself and that made his team better. Don't confuse the two.

Last edited by LeBird : 03-17-2013 at 10:11 PM.
LeBird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 11:45 PM   #112
rmt
National High School Star
 
rmt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,368
rmt is considered somewhat coolrmt is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBird
Er, let's be clear: Bird had a far tougher era - and that includes the post-season - to contend with than Duncan. It's not really debatable. And Bird was still awesome. That the Celtics won 3 titles in an era where they were contending with the best team of all-time - that had 2 of the top 5 players of all time (let alone the likes of Cooper, Worthy, Scott, etc) - is incredible. He also had to contend with the Sixers, Pistons, Bucks and Rockets - the latter two would have been regular title contenders, at the least, in Duncan's era.

It also meant that his 'not once having an all-nba player' (which is a stupid qualification, since he has had great teammates and fantastically 'built' teams in general) doesn't really count against him. Transport him to the 80s and he wins 0 titles.

Anyone can play the what if game. Give Bird Duncan's 03 team mates and Bird wins 0 titles in that tougher era. That "tougher era" had less movement of players and less dilution of stars per team (the Heat notwithstanding). It's not like Duncan didn't have to go up against 2 top ten players (Shaq/Kobe) or the tough Western Conference - he just did it without the quality of team mates that Bird had.
rmt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 12:12 AM   #113
Fedor - Laker
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,354
Fedor - Laker has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

there are only 3 players you should ever know

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Bird
Fedor - Laker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 12:18 AM   #114
ThaRegul8r
National High School Star
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,142
ThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation hereThaRegul8r has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedor - Laker
there are only 3 players you should ever know

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Bird

Ah...so the rest of NBA history, both before and after, doesn't matter then.



I didn't know that intentionally limiting one's knowledge was ever a good thing.
ThaRegul8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 12:22 AM   #115
Round Mound
NBA lottery pick
 
Round Mound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,155
Round Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedor - Laker
there are only 3 players you should ever know

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Bird

Thats a Stupid Thing To Say Since This is the Notion Most Kids Got Since the NBA Began to Get Global At Around Those 3 Players Time. So thats What Most People Remember. Very Few Remember that Barkley was the 2nd Best Player in the Game 1988 to 1993 and Hakeem the 2nd or 1st as a Whole afte Jordan from 1985 to 1995.

Bird is my 2nd Favorite Player Ever but Its Not as Clear as You Think in Terms of Being Better than Duncan. Prime Bird was Probably Better but Duncan was the Better Impact Player Individually Wise (as was Barkley over Bird in those Terms). Duncan Was The Better Post Player, Rebounder, Shot Blocker and Rim Protector. Bird was the Better Far Range Shooter, Passer, Creator, Clutch Player and Had More Savy.

Last edited by Round Mound : 03-18-2013 at 12:30 AM.
Round Mound is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 01:22 AM   #116
nosfan773
Decent playground baller
 
nosfan773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NOLA by way of San Antonio
Posts: 393
nosfan773 has not been impressing people
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
/thread.

seriously! Thats the NAIL IN THE COFFIN.

In modern day NBA (1970 - Present) excluding the 50s & 60s & 40s...

Only 3 Players are considered UNQUESTIONABLE GOAT for their ability to either TRANSFORM or TRANSCEND the game forever.

1. Michael Jordan: TRANSENDED the game forever where the rules are completely changed post MJ era. (WHOLE GENERATION COPIES HIM)

2. Magic Johnson: TRANSFORMED the game where modern day PURE PLAYMAKING PGs copy him.

3. LARRY BIRD: TRANFORMED the game where mordern day PURE or POINT FORWARDS copy him (LBJ, Pippen, T-mac)

Where is dat Tim Duncan in this argument.

NOWHERE!

Thats a stupid argument. The league was still growing during Birds era. So you're basically saying if a player nowadays was clearly better than MJ (blasphemous I know) you wouldn't rank him ahead of MJ simply because of the influence MJ had on the game?

nosfan773 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 01:55 AM   #117
rmt
National High School Star
 
rmt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,368
rmt is considered somewhat coolrmt is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedor - Laker
there are only 3 players you should ever know

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Bird

That's so close-minded. I think that one can learn from/appreciate different players/styles. To believe that basketball begins and ends with just 3 players is so limiting and disrespectful to all the players. Even MJ, Magic and Bird needed others to rebound, defend and space the floor for them.
rmt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 06:05 AM   #118
LeBird
Good High School Starter
 
LeBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 926
LeBird has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
Anyone can play the what if game. Give Bird Duncan's 03 team mates and Bird wins 0 titles in that tougher era. That "tougher era" had less movement of players and less dilution of stars per team (the Heat notwithstanding). It's not like Duncan didn't have to go up against 2 top ten players (Shaq/Kobe) or the tough Western Conference - he just did it without the quality of team mates that Bird had.

That 'what if' is one of the least debatable what ifs there are. So, excuse me, but your argument doesn't wash for anyone intelligible enough to discern the difference between the eras. Bird took the 2nd worst side in the NBA and made them the #1 team - in the 80s (!). I think he'd do more than fine with any of Duncan's teams.

And fending off one great team is different to fending off several. Rubbish retort.
LeBird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 06:21 AM   #119
DMAVS41
NBA Legend
 
DMAVS41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 19,649
DMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDMAVS41 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBird
Er, let's be clear: Bird had a far tougher era - and that includes the post-season - to contend with than Duncan. It's not really debatable. And Bird was still awesome. That the Celtics won 3 titles in an era where they were contending with the best team of all-time - that had 2 of the top 5 players of all time (let alone the likes of Cooper, Worthy, Scott, etc) - is incredible. He also had to contend with the Sixers, Pistons, Bucks and Rockets - the latter two would have been regular title contenders, at the least, in Duncan's era.

It also meant that his 'not once having an all-nba player' (which is a stupid qualification, since he has had great teammates and fantastically 'built' teams in general) doesn't really count against him. Transport him to the 80s and he wins 0 titles.



Shaq didn't make his teammates better. He made himself better - he played at a higher/better version of himself and that made his team better. Don't confuse the two.

Well, Bird did face tougher competition, but it's negated by the fact that Bird had the most help out of anyone outside the Lakers. So lets not pretend like Bird didn't have a loaded team...even for his era. It's a false argument...one that could be made against the likes of Kobe or Shaq or Lebron now...but not Duncan.

No superstar in NBA history has won more with less than Duncan.
DMAVS41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 06:54 AM   #120
Micku
NBA lottery pick
 
Micku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,939
Micku is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMicku is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMicku is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMicku is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMicku is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMicku is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMicku is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterMicku is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Well, Bird did face tougher competition, but it's negated by the fact that Bird had the most help out of anyone outside the Lakers. So lets not pretend like Bird didn't have a loaded team...even for his era. It's a false argument...one that could be made against the likes of Kobe or Shaq or Lebron now...but not Duncan.

No superstar in NBA history has won more with less than Duncan.

To be fair, in the 80s you had to be stacked to win a championship back then. The 76ers, the Bucks, Pistons later on, Hawks, and Celts were all stacked with good players. And also when Bird came into the league, the Celts weren't stacked and he transformed that team to have the best record in the league. You can't deny Bird's impact on the team.

Same with Duncan tho.
Micku is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:35 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy