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Old 03-15-2013, 11:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

There's really no way to know with certainty. We'll see eventually.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

The first few months Melo had some cache with me personally. Melo was never a superstar to me. An elite scorer probably the best scorer in the game until Durant gets a little stronger physically (grown man strength). Its just not enough to be like that. My thought will never change on that.

So I thought I saw a new Melo. I thought he gave better effort on both ends leading by example.

Melo has many shortcomings because people want to put him as a superstar, he isnt a leader, he doesnt have the win at all cost mentality, he doesnt want to make the best basketball play. The Knicks tried to make this team into an AI lead team with senior citizens mostly.

With that said. I do believe you can win it all with Melo but you need a strong coach with a system. The partner that plays with Melo has to be the leader. They have to take the cues from the coach and make the team be better.
Or put more talented players around him and he sacrifices his scoring to be the closer of shot clocks and games.

I dont know if the Knicks can add the quality pieces around Melo to win being hamstrung by Stat and Chandlers contracts also Novaks. Upon further research Kidd was a mini-mid level exception and Camby was an exception through sign n trade last year only 3 mill guaranteed (Knickcity Knowledge I forgot and didnt know respectively).

So the 2 major pieces that will have to go falls to Stat and Chandler. Melo isnt going anywhere under any circumstances regardless of what people wish for. ISO ball will attract no one to play here.

Last edited by Rameek : 03-15-2013 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knick...lZgBniS 7qqZL
Quote:
Mike Vaccaro

PORTLAND ó He canít win.

Thatís the best defense Iím going to muster for Carmelo Anthony, and even by saying that I understand what it implies out of context: that he canít win. That he canít get his teams out of the first round of the NBA playoffs. That he is a terrific player, not a winning player. You hear the arguments. Hell, it may well be that you argue that side of the argument. And Iím not going to tell you youíre wrong. But weíll return to the question of Anthony the winner a little later.

Letís look at it the other way: he canít win. He canít catch a break. He canít ever be given the benefit of the doubt by so many because to give him the benefit of the doubt is to offer undue sympathy to a millionaire who knew exactly what he was getting into when he chose New York and all that goes along with the money and the city. So no matter what he does, he gets two sides of a debate both, somehow, aiming their darts and their arrows at him.

For instance:

Argument I: Carmelo is a selfish player. Just look at what he did Wednesday night in Denver, knowing he had a bum knee, knowing he wasnít 100 percent, knowing that when he isnít 100 percent he doesnít have that gene that allows him to play well in spite of his ailments. That was the gene Michael Jordan had, the one Kobe Bryant and LeBron James have. If Melo were hurting, the argument goes, he owed it to his team to sit out, or to get his knee drained sooner than yesterday, missing the Knicksí 105-90 loss to the Blazers at Rose Garden.

Argument I-A: And this is the problem for Anthony. Letís say he did sit it out. Letís say he said to himself, ďYou know what, much as Iíd like to answer the angry masses here in Colorado, Iím going to wear my suit and tie and watch from the sidelines.Ē Well letís be entirely honest here: how would that have gone over? What would people have said then? That heís soft? That he has no guts? That he has no courage? That heís a selfish player who puts his own health above that of the teamís?

ďIím going to listen to my players,Ē Knicks coach Mike Woodson said. ďHe told me he could play and we accommodated him by playing

So what do you do then?

How do you win?

You donít. He doesnít. He canít. No matter which side he chooses, he loses. Maybe the more prudent course of action would have been the second but only because of this: Melo doesnít play well when heís grinding through pain. He just doesnít. Thatís a fair critique.

But thatís never enough when we judge him, is it?

And before we go, letís take the same approach to the old tired argument of whether Carmelo is a winner or not. That goes back to our first sentence. He canít win. Pundits and wise guys will seize on that: No. He canít. He never has. Thatís the point, just as you typed it: He canít win.

Letís look at that argument:

Argument A: He never makes players around him better.

Rebuttal: What about Syracuse, which he led to a national title in 2003? Look at that team around him: one other pro (Hakim Warrick) and a batch of role players who, excepting Gerry McNamaraís otherworldly run through the Big East Tournament three years later, never came close to approaching without him what they were with him. And kill his Denver years all you like; as a rookie, with Earl Boykins and Voshon Lenard as his running mates, he led the Nuggets from 17 to 43 wins.

Argument B: Heís never won anywhere else.

Rebuttal: Well, except for the Olympics of Beijing and London, in which he was a key contributor to a star-studded lineup who, according to no less than Mike Krzyzewski, ďEnjoyed playing in this kind of format more than any player I ever saw.Ē

Argument C: Well, sure. He didnít have to be The Man.

Rebuttal: And this is where we return to the original premise. In most of Meloís basketball word, his chief flaw is that he wants the ball too much. In the Olympics, heís killed because he doesnít want it enough.

He canít win.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

I don't understand how he's the best scorer. LeBron scores just as much, but does it much more efficiently and throws out 7-8 assists in addition. Kobe scores just as much, and he's got 10 years on the guy. Kevin Durant scores just as much, but he's more efficient and he plays within the flow of the offense. James Harden is as good a scorer. And I could make the argument for probably 10 other guys.

It just doesn't stand up to even casual scrutiny.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

Melo as viewed as the best scorer in that he has the most variety of ways to put the ball in the hoop, from the midrange to post ups, spin moves and now the three ball.

Only issue.....45% from the field, and he doesn't come out the gate lighting it up much.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:45 AM   #21
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

Hogwash.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:38 AM   #22
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

Well when Carmelo Anthony gets Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh to pass to, and he still doesn't shoot a good %, then maybe I'll complain about his "poor shooting." But as long as bums like Ason Kidd are still on the team, I'm going to use common sense and use my eyes to see what's happening on the court. When you make a move, the defense collapse, you pass it out to the open man and that open man gives it right back to you virtually every time....it's hard to shoot a quality percentage. When your team gives you the ball with 5 or less seconds on the clock because nobody else can create their own shot, it's hard to shoot a high percentage.

I have no problems complaining about Melo's poor shooting. That being said, if you aren't acknowledging OBVIOUS factors, then you're just being a hypocrite.

Jason Kidd, Pablo Prigioni, Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler, Steve Novak, James White, Kenyon Martin. That's 8 guys who can't create their own shot.

That leaves Copeland, Stoudermire, Wallace, Smith, Shumpert.

Wallace and Stoudemire are out and probably missed more games than they've played.
Copeland very rarely plays.
Shumpert is limited offensively.

So that leaves JR Smith, who comes off the bench and is the epitome of inconsistent. I personally think Melo and JR play very well together.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:48 AM   #23
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
So that leaves JR Smith, who comes off the bench and is the epitome of inconsistent. I personally think Melo and JR play very well together.
j/k

They take turns chucking
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Well when Carmelo Anthony gets Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh to pass to, and he still doesn't shoot a good %, then maybe I'll complain about his "poor shooting." But as long as bums like Ason Kidd are still on the team, I'm going to use common sense and use my eyes to see what's happening on the court. When you make a move, the defense collapse, you pass it out to the open man and that open man gives it right back to you virtually every time....it's hard to shoot a quality percentage. When your team gives you the ball with 5 or less seconds on the clock because nobody else can create their own shot, it's hard to shoot a high percentage.

I have no problems complaining about Melo's poor shooting. That being said, if you aren't acknowledging OBVIOUS factors, then you're just being a hypocrite.

Jason Kidd, Pablo Prigioni, Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler, Steve Novak, James White, Kenyon Martin. That's 8 guys who can't create their own shot.

That leaves Copeland, Stoudermire, Wallace, Smith, Shumpert.

Wallace and Stoudemire are out and probably missed more games than they've played.
Copeland very rarely plays.
Shumpert is limited offensively.

So that leaves JR Smith, who comes off the bench and is the epitome of inconsistent. I personally think Melo and JR play very well together.
Melo has an astronomical usage %, he is certainly not being given the ball with 5 seconds on the clock.

Almost every single possession of plays is used by Melo.

34% in usage is ridiculous combined with close to 40 minutes on the court.

So efficiency has to be key when one player soaks up the majority of each possession....that's what obvious.

It's not ironic that Melo's %'s fell and so did the teams numbers....at the same time.

Blame the role players all you want, but they all fell off at the same time Melo did.

Speaking of those guys in South beach can anyone explain how Shard, Allen, Battier and Chalmers are all shooting over 40% from three?

Some of these guys were viewed to be washed up last year, wonder how come they produce now?

Even damged good Miller is shooting 36% from deep.

Here's is the answer, when your top guys are doing everything to win on the court, the role players will follow suit.

It's not irony to me that once Melo went back to just taking a ton of shots and not doing what he was early on on both sides of the court, the team as a whole has looked poor.

And of course those guys big three are all shooting over 52% from the field rebound the ball well and play defense.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:19 PM   #25
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

Ray Allen is maybe the greatest shooter in the history of the league. Mike Miller has always been a very good/great shooter while Rashard Lewis and Chalmers are pretty good spot up shooters.

They are shooting high percentage because they have 3 guys around that command attention from defense in LeBron,Wade and Bosh.

Knicks only have Carmelo. Role players didn't start to play poorly because Melo played poorly. Melo started to shoot poorly because role players completely cooled off and couldn't hit an ocean so him and J.R. needed to take all the shots.

I completely agree with franchize. Besides Melo and J.R. we don't have anyone who can create his own shot. Maybe Felton. Amare is hurt,Sheed is hurt,Copeland doesn't play and his defense sucks,Shumpert can't even make a slightly contested layup.
And our "shooters" sucks ass. Novak has one good game where he'll go 5-7 from three and then he'll shoot 1-4 or 0-3 in next 5-6 games. Of course that one good game will come in a blowout win. Jason Kidd shot 15% for three for like 2 months. Prigioni isn't here to shoot and James White sucks.

Knicks need to get back to moving the ball like they did early in the season. But you can't just blame Melo for not moving the ball. He is somewhat responsible for that but I understand him,If I'm one of the most talented offensive player in the league I would rather take a shot than pass it to my scrub teammate for who I'm sure he'll brick it.

Last edited by Clutch : 03-16-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

The point is all those guys were viewed to be washed up prior to coming to Miami.

Shard was total garbage before Miami, but ironically he looks good there, same with an older Ray who did not look good at all last season

And no matter how it is avoided, when Melo stopped doing the things he did earlier, so did the team.

You dont go 48% from the field to 43% because of your team mates.

He's an iso player, all they do is watch the show like the fans do.

I guarantee anyone if Melo goes back to playing consistent defense, and truly looking for his teammates on offese instead of the last seconds in a shot clock, like he did earlier in the season, everyone on the team will improve including himself.

Your stars dictate your role players.

Just look around the league.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:46 PM   #27
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

Come on man,Ray Allen is great. He only looked bad because he was injured.

With him being 4th or whatever option on the team he can take more quality shots and look better.

Nobody is saying that Carmelo is as good as LeBron. But LeBron has much more help and that's not even debatable. Wade would be the best or 2nd best player on the Knicks. Chris Bosh would clearly be second best player on the Knicks too.
Ray Allen is better than anyone on our bench excluding J.R.Smith.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

What about washed up Rashard? Explain that one.

sorry everyone felt ray fell off and that was outside of injuries.

The main issue is truly whether Melo should be the best player on the team.

Maybe he is a 2nd fiddle himself like Paul Pierce has become since the big three forming.

But regardless, role players elevate to their stars elevation.

When Melo plays at an elite level his role players will as well, we already seen this.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:03 PM   #29
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

Quote:
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What about washed up Rashard? Explain that one.
He's not being asked to do anything else but shoot. He was always a good shooter. The past few years he played on bad teams so he didn't get good looks.

When you play with LeBron you get good looks. When besides LeBron you also have Wade and Bosh you get great looks no matter against who you play.

What are you trying to prove ? That LeBron is better than Carmelo ? We all know that.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:22 PM   #30
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Default Re: Blow it up thread....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
He's not being asked to do anything else but shoot. He was always a good shooter. The past few years he played on bad teams so he didn't get good looks.

When you play with LeBron you get good looks. When besides LeBron you also have Wade and Bosh you get great looks no matter against who you play.

What are you trying to prove ? That LeBron is better than Carmelo ? We all know that.
Rashard was missing wide open shots for years, now in Miami he's elite.

You really think Lebron is the only player in the league that can give a team mate "good looks"?

Watch Lebron play, he can score at will, but that isn't his gameplan.

His defense is always there, as is the effort, and he strives to get his team involved early....that is what sets his bar.

Those three aspects any top player should be able to do consistently.

Even Durant elevated his playmaking, defense, and rebounding.

Lebron is perfectly content to set up a confident Chalmers for instance all night depending on the matchup.

You think Chalmers would excel here? Nope.

Even Bibby was a 40% shooter in Miami the year before he came to the Knicks.

Now watch the knicks....who takes the first shot in almost every single game and usually miss? It's not a role player....it's Melo.

Getting your team mates involved doesn't mean just kick out when double teamed.

Teams dont even double Melo, they are happy he takes a ton of shots because they know it's too tempting for him to not shoot.

But once again, look at everysingle top team in the league, all of their role players play well because their stars play on both ends of the floor, always give effort and play defense.
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