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Old 03-14-2013, 10:28 AM   #46
Whoah10115
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorMurder
He was a tough SOB


When are NBA players going to learn that clubs/bars just lead to trouble? Bird in a bar fight, Pierce getting stabbed, Stephen Jackson/Kendrick Perkins shooting incident. Newsflash, you can pick up chicks anywhere guys!



I don't even know if they go to these places for girls. At least I don't think that's the main reason...guys love to hang out in the worst places. Tho Pierce getting stabbed clearly stands out.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:29 AM   #47
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

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Originally Posted by Round Mound
There are some clips and full games on Kareem with the Bucks the dude was an Unreal Defender then. He was like a More Athletic Version of Tim Duncan with Better Passing and ofcourse the Most Onstoppable Post Shot of All Time, The Sky Hook. Kareem in his 20s Would Average 30-35 PPG in Today´s NBA with Ease.


Well, 35 I definitely don't agree. I don't know that he would get the ball as much as he should have, and the rules are different...but also, that's just a huge number. But I did like that Kareem. Some cross between Duncan and Pau...maybe that sounds right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii

Ah okay. One other point of note is that at the time, Walton was considered by a fair portion of sportswriters/other players to be the superior player (compared to KAJ). I definitely respect his longevity (particularly what he did in 85, absolutely ridiculous) but agree for the most part.

It's hard to say if Walton should ever been considered better than Kareem...with that said, he had more impact than Kareem did, at that time. The argument against Walton was that he was always hurt, even when he was healthy. But winning a title with that play is validation for that ranking. I would certainly rather have that Walton than that Kareem. Also, while Bucks Kareem was an awesome defender, Walton was somewhere else. You talk about game IQ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
The Cavs didn't win enough games early on for Lebron to win MVP.



He also never deserved it before 2009.

Last edited by Whoah10115 : 03-14-2013 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:17 PM   #48
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Magic averaged a mediocre 20.0ppg 6.8rpg 13.0apg over his next nine playoff runs while making six more Finals.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...yoffs_per_game

My biggest "what if" of Magic's career was the '89 Finals. The Lakers had swept the entire Western conference. I know the Bad Boy Pistons were basically at their peak, but who knows what would have happened with Magic and Scott being able to play?
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:11 PM   #49
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
The Cavs didn't win enough games early on for Lebron to win MVP.

In 07 Cavs came 2nd in the Eastern Conference. Bulls came 3rd in 88. The same number of wins (50). Yet Lebron gets no MVP, whilst Jordan does.

Last edited by LeBird : 03-14-2013 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:47 AM   #50
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

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Originally Posted by LeBird
In 07 Cavs came 2nd in the Eastern Conference. Bulls came 3rd in 88. The same number of wins (50). Yet Lebron gets no MVP, whilst Jordan does.



But that was because 3 other players were clearly better.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:59 AM   #51
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBird
In 07 Cavs came 2nd in the Eastern Conference. Bulls came 3rd in 88. The same number of wins (50). Yet Lebron gets no MVP, whilst Jordan does.

1988 MJ mops floor with 2007 LBJ's face EASILY here!

1988 MJ

35 ppg @ 53%FG.
250+ steals & 100+ blocks in single year. only player to EVER do so.
Only Scoring leader EVER to win DPOY as well in the same year.

also STEALS leader

So easily season MVP for 1988 MJ for 50 wins. 50 wins in MUCH TOUGHER EASTERN CONFERENCE (playing Bad Boys, Cavs, Celtics, Hawks)

2007 LBJ, 50 wins in MUCH EASIER EASTERN CONFERENCE. & EASIEST CENTRAL DIVISION. Its easy to pile up WINS & even easier road to get to NBA Finals

1988 MJ, 50 wins in TOUGHEST DIVISION (central) of the TOUGHER EASTERN CONFERENCE! (playing Cavs, bad boys 4-5 times). Its easy to pile up LOSSES

1988 MJs 50 wins = 2007 LBJs 60 wins.

Last edited by gengiskhan : 03-15-2013 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:06 AM   #52
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

LEbron who?
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:13 AM   #53
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBird
In 07 Cavs came 2nd in the Eastern Conference. Bulls came 3rd in 88. The same number of wins (50). Yet Lebron gets no MVP, whilst Jordan does.

I don't think Jordan deserved the 1988 MVP(Bird did), but I'm not so sure those two situations you listed are all that comparable.

1988 Jordan was a better player than 2007 Lebron. That had a lot to do with the disparity in MVP votes.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:53 AM   #54
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlip
This is kind of random, but I was just looking at Magic's playoffs stats. These were the per game avg. over those first four seasons.

'80- 18.3ppg 10.5rpg 9.4apg 16 games
'81- 17.0ppg 13.7rpg 7.0apg 3 games
'82- 17.4ppg 11.3rpg 9.3apg 14 games
'83- 17.9ppg 8.5rpg 12.8apg 15 games


4 year avg.- 17.8 ppg 10.3rpg 10.3apg

This includes 3 Finals appearances and 2 titles. So we're looking at extremely deep playoff runs each season except for one.

I love Magics game, but If you round off then Oscar averaged a triple double for Four seasons (and was close to a fifth). If Oscar was a big man it would've been easier to comprehend because he played in the 60's, but he was a guard.


And before any tries to downplay his accomplishments, you should ask yourself if it was that easy then why haven't atleast 1 player duplicate for even 1 season what Oscar did


p.s. he was doing it to the tune of 30 14 and 10!!!! Pure dominance. #lebronb4lebron
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:25 AM   #55
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBird
In 07 Cavs came 2nd in the Eastern Conference. Bulls came 3rd in 88. The same number of wins (50). Yet Lebron gets no MVP, whilst Jordan does.


Jordan 88 was one of the GOAT seasons. It was far better than Lebron in 2007.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:01 PM   #56
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Easily better? Nah. James is maybe better than that version, but not easily.

No, it's pretty clear. It's not a knock on Magic, we're comparing Magic in his first few years and early 20's to Lebron who is now in his prime, arguably peaking and in his 10th year. But '80-'83 Magic and current Lebron isn't close. Current Lebron and '87-'90 Magic is a much better comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Round Mound
Nah...Barkley Was Just Robbed. Jordan had Pippen and Grant...Barkley had Nobodies for his Wins. Barkley Was The 1990 MVP.

Neither had paricularly good casts compared to the top contenders like Detroit, LA, or even the talent a team like Phoenix had. Pippen at that point was a borderline all-star, but he improved greatly in '91 and '92, and certainly wasn't close to mid 90's Pippen yet. Grant was a nice role player, but also not in his prime yet. Winning 55 games with a new coach and new system was very impressive. Plus, Jordan was at or near his peak as a player, and I just can't consider anyone at that time more valuable than prime Jordan.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:13 PM   #57
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

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Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
No, it's pretty clear. It's not a knock on Magic, we're comparing Magic in his first few years and early 20's to Lebron who is now in his prime, arguably peaking and in his 10th year. But '80-'83 Magic and current Lebron isn't close. Current Lebron and '87-'90 Magic is a much better comparison.



For some reason I thought we were talking about 2009 LeBron. I have no idea why. LeBron is a much better player now than he was in 2009.

I still can't say I fully agree with you tho. Not about Magic in 82 or especially 83, who I think was much better than a rookie and sophomore Magic.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:29 PM   #58
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
For some reason I thought we were talking about 2009 LeBron. I have no idea why. LeBron is a much better player now than he was in 2009.

I still can't say I fully agree with you tho. Not about Magic in 82 or especially 83, who I think was much better than a rookie and sophomore Magic.

Magic was better in '82 and '83 than his first 2 seasons, but not better than Kareem at the same time, and Kareem was starting to decline. No way I take pre-'87 Magic over 2009-present Lebron, much less pre-'84 Magic.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:17 PM   #59
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
It's hard to say if Walton should ever been considered better than Kareem...with that said, he had more impact than Kareem did, at that time. The argument against Walton was that he was always hurt, even when he was healthy. But winning a title with that play is validation for that ranking. I would certainly rather have that Walton than that Kareem. Also, while Bucks Kareem was an awesome defender, Walton was somewhere else. You talk about game IQ...



Considering all three phases of the game, I can never hold KAJ's offense against him. His rebounding always left more to be desired (not that he was a poor rebounder, but obviously you'd expect more given his stature/pedigree), but his defense seems to have declined over his career.

Based on my data, here's how he breaks down on that end:

70 - solid
71-74 - incredible, DPOY or better status
75 - subpar (he missed some games so I'll give him a pass)
76 - same
77 - solid
78 - somewhere between subpar and solid (missed games, another pass)
79-82 - solid
83-84 again not quite subpar but not solid
85 - solid
86-89 - I won't hold these seasons against him given his age

The problematic seasons IMO are 75-78. I think he should've exhibited that same level of defense from his best defensive years in MIL. Since my numbers incorporate a lot of team-level impact I can't say anything definitively regarding 75 and 78 since the games he missed might've affected the results, but I really would've liked to see him play defense at that same level for those four seasons. On another note, it would've been fun for him to have retired in 85 given the crazy Finals series he had, but it's hard to step away from the game at the perfect moment (only really Russell, and perhaps David Robinson did, off the top of my head; MJ would be in that category as well, if not for those last two Washington seasons).
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:35 PM   #60
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Neither had paricularly good casts compared to the top contenders like Detroit, LA, or even the talent a team like Phoenix had. Pippen at that point was a borderline all-star, but he improved greatly in '91 and '92, and certainly wasn't close to mid 90's Pippen yet. Grant was a nice role player, but also not in his prime yet. Winning 55 games with a new coach and new system was very impressive. Plus, Jordan was at or near his peak as a player, and I just can't consider anyone at that time more valuable than prime Jordan.



Pippen was an All Star in 1990 and Grant Was Among the Best Defensive PFs in the Game. Both Where Better than ANY OTHER PLAYER in Barkley´s Sixers and Still Barkley´S Sixers Had Just 2 or 3 Wins Less than the Bulls.

Barkley had Most 1st Places Votes for the MVP and Lost the MVP because some Biased Voters Did Not Even Put Him in the Top 5-10 of the MVP Votes Mostly Because of His Agressive Attitude Towards the Some Part of the Media and Coaches.

Robbed Totally.

Last edited by Round Mound : 03-15-2013 at 05:50 PM.
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