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Old 03-01-2013, 08:41 PM   #1
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Default Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

Players like Kobe, Lebron among others have gone to Hakeem, but not everyone can play like Hakeem or even beneficial to. I'd like to see more players use old school post moves. Kobe ALWAYS goes to a fade away like Jordan did and Lebron always shoots a turn around. Ironically the two players they both play/ed with, Pippen and Wade actually have/had more old school post up games. Wade is a great post up guard especially for his size and he uses old school moves instead of going to a fade away and Pippen in the post was always using an array of hooks, up and unders etc instead of fade aways. What happened to that kind of post play? Why does everyone just go to a fade away or turn around these days?

Almost everyone is so predictable in the post these days because they all shoot a fade away or turn around. The art of the post game has been incredibly diminished since the 80s and 90s. Yeah those shots are hard to defend, but they aren't high percentage shots. Nobody works in the post to get the easy shot using fakes, up and unders, baby hooks anymore.

Last edited by Smoke117 : 03-01-2013 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

They don't want to feel the defender's dick by posting up too much so they shoot a fadeaway right before they make contact.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

those type of shots you mention create a lot of space and offensive players like Kobe/Bron feel confident that if they can get a clear look at the rim that they'll hit those shots.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

You should watch the games a little more closely if in your mind kobe goes to the fadeaway every time. Enough to capitalize every letter in the word
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM
those type of shots you mention create a lot of space and offensive players like Kobe/Bron feel confident that if they can get a clear look at the rim that they'll hit those shots.

Those type of shots are not high percentage shots in general though. Kevin Mchale wasn't shooting 60% and scoring 26ppg shooting fadeaways and turnaround jump shots. The actual higher efficiency and better post moves aren't even used anymore. I dunno if basketball players IQ's have just lowered or they have all fallen in love with turnarounds and the fade away, but they don't use old school post moves at all anymore. The guy in your icon KG is one of those guys that pretty much ONLY GOES TO A TURN AROUND in the post. I don't understand why he didn't learn to do more then that. It's why his offensive game was never superb. He didn't have the natural turn around of a Rasheed Wallace, but worked on it to make it good, but he was playing in Minnesota with Mchale there and should have been learning some moves from him. Craftiness is a lot more important than athleticism and I can't believe Garnett never really learned anything from Mchale in the post all that time in Minnesota.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

Doesn't matter how many moves you have as long as things work. Shaq only had 2 moves and was unstoppable down low. Same with Barkley. KG's turnaround fade is nigh unblockable and it goes in so who cares if he has other moves.

And his offensive game "lacked" because he never made scoring a priority. Just because he didn't have a similar mentality to a Kobe or Carmelo doesn't mean he wasn't capable of getting buckets when he wanted.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. I'm So Rad
Doesn't matter how many moves you have as long as things work. Shaq only had 2 moves and was unstoppable down low. Same with Barkley. KG's turnaround fade is nigh unblockable and it goes in so who cares if he has other moves.

And his offensive game "lacked" because he never made scoring a priority. Just because he didn't have a similar mentality to a Kobe or Carmelo doesn't mean he wasn't capable of getting buckets when he wanted.


KG's turnaround may be unblockable, but it was never a great shot. I don't consider KG ever a great scorer because he just didn't have the skill set to be one. It was his crazy athleticism with that decent-good turn around that made him an "good" scorer, but he was never great even in his prime. Maybe if he had learned more moves he could have been, but he wasn't even really a natural shooter like a Rasheed Wallace was. Sheed just never shot enough. He's about the only player from the 2000 era who really could average 25ppg on great efficiency shooting fade aways and turnarounds if he had the drive to be a great scorer. Nobody has had a touch like him in the post shooting turnarounds and fade aways from the post like he did over the last 15 years or so.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
Those type of shots are not high percentage shots in general though. Kevin Mchale wasn't shooting 60% and scoring 26ppg shooting fadeaways and turnaround jump shots. The actual higher efficiency and better post moves aren't even used anymore. I dunno if basketball players IQ's have just lowered or they have all fallen in love with turnarounds and the fade away, but they don't use old school post moves at all anymore. The guy in your icon KG is one of those guys that pretty much ONLY GOES TO A TURN AROUND in the post. I don't understand why he didn't learn to do more then that. It's why his offensive game was never superb. He didn't have the natural turn around of a Rasheed Wallace, but worked on it to make it good, but he was playing in Minnesota with Mchale there and should have been learning some moves from him. Craftiness is a lot more important than athleticism and I can't believe Garnett never really learned anything from Mchale in the post all that time in Minnesota.


Garnett had post moves and used them in Minnesota. He went to the jumper more than most people wanted, but he did get on the block and work some moves. He had the footwork and athleticism and ball-handling to do what Hakeem did, as opposed to what McHale did. He did it well but just not as much as most people wanted. In Boston, he's not even the same player. Even early on.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Garnett had post moves and used them in Minnesota. He went to the jumper more than most people wanted, but he did get on the block and work some moves. He had the footwork and athleticism and ball-handling to do what Hakeem did, as opposed to what McHale did. He did it well but just not as much as most people wanted. In Boston, he's not even the same player. Even early on.


This all jives with my memory. Lots of people forget that KG is half the player he was in MN, even in his first season with Boston he was only 70%.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

I agree that players do need to use a wider variety of post moves, and there are not enough fakes.

Post moves today consist of backing somebody down and doing a fake spin to one side and either fadeaway or try a little hook shot.

They don't string together a chain of moves like the greats used to do.


Having said that, a fadeaway is a good shot depending on the player. Some players are very comfortable hitting a little fadeaway. I actually shoot mid-range jumpers with a little bit of a fade because it is comfortable. So I completely understand players who are comfortable shooting that shot.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
Players like Kobe, Lebron among others have gone to Hakeem, but not everyone can play like Hakeem or even beneficial to. I'd like to see more players use old school post moves. Kobe ALWAYS goes to a fade away like Jordan did and Lebron always shoots a turn around. Ironically the two players they both play/ed with, Pippen and Wade actually have/had more old school post up games. Wade is a great post up guard especially for his size and he uses old school moves instead of going to a fade away and Pippen in the post was always using an array of hooks, up and unders etc instead of fade aways. What happened to that kind of post play? Why does everyone just go to a fade away or turn around these days?

Almost everyone is so predictable in the post these days because they all shoot a fade away or turn around. The art of the post game has been incredibly diminished since the 80s and 90s. Yeah those shots are hard to defend, but they aren't high percentage shots. Nobody works in the post to get the easy shot using fakes, up and unders, baby hooks anymore.

I always thought Bron and specially Griffin should work out with Malone instead of Hakeem. Malone knew how to get easy shots around the basket with the ball and move without it. People love to say "it was all Stockton setting him up" but Malone had to understand how to move without the ball, how to get the proper position and understand angles. I see both of them struggle at times to get an easy shot. They rely on fadeaways far too much which annoys me. Malone knew how to use his body to protect the ball, how to get easy shots around the paint and use his strength to his advantage something Griffin and Bron don't do as well.

Some will point to McHale, but McHale had very long arms and his style of play wouldn't fit them. This will sound crazy but McHale's advantage was his unathleticism. His inability to jump forced him to stay grounded and not leave his feet, Bron and Griffin jump every chance they get they wouldn't have the discipline at this stage of their basketball playing experience. It's their instinct to leave their feet, it'll be easier to teach them Malone's game than McHale's.

I say, they get together with Malone, and he teaches them the art of the bow. He teaches them how to get position, how to move without the ball, how to get your defender off balance with the jab and shooting without fading away as much. More importantly, how to get 'easy' shots which they don't do for themsvels as often.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

Hakeem's fadeaway was the reason why his post moves were so deadly, but his true effectiveness came from the other moves his fadeaway set up. Since opponents had to respect the fadeaway, they were more susceptible to the hooks, up and unders, spins, dream shakes etc. that Hakeem utilized to even greater effect.

His true strength was his footwork. If he had the fadeaway, but not the other stuff, he wouldn't be half as effective. That's why all the other guys look awkward when pulling off Hakeem's moves.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:11 AM   #13
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
Players like Kobe, Lebron among others have gone to Hakeem, but not everyone can play like Hakeem or even beneficial to. I'd like to see more players use old school post moves. Kobe ALWAYS goes to a fade away like Jordan did and Lebron always shoots a turn around. Ironically the two players they both play/ed with, Pippen and Wade actually have/had more old school post up games. Wade is a great post up guard especially for his size and he uses old school moves instead of going to a fade away and Pippen in the post was always using an array of hooks, up and unders etc instead of fade aways. What happened to that kind of post play? Why does everyone just go to a fade away or turn around these days?

Almost everyone is so predictable in the post these days because they all shoot a fade away or turn around. The art of the post game has been incredibly diminished since the 80s and 90s. Yeah those shots are hard to defend, but they aren't high percentage shots. Nobody works in the post to get the easy shot using fakes, up and unders, baby hooks anymore.

You act like the only thing Hakeem did or can teach these players is a fade away. That's just false, that was just one club in Hakeem's bag of tricks. Hell the majority of Hakeem's post moves were "fakes and up and unders" so I don't understand your criticism. Seriously go watch the Youtube video of Hakeem undressing David Robinson.

Furthermore another reason why players go to Hakeem for their post moves is because the guy had arguably the best footwork in the league when he played and he has a lot of knowledge that he can pass down that players can develop and add their own style/technique to. Well anybody, but Dwight Howard, because he's about the only player who hasn't improved after working with Hakeem.

Last edited by TMac&Luther : 03-02-2013 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

drop step to seal off defender in the post is not seen anymore in the league...
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:24 AM   #15
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Default Re: Why does everyone go to Hakeem to work on their post up game?

They should go to Kareem and learn that hook shot.
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