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Old 02-27-2013, 02:56 PM   #16
senelcoolidge
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

#1 MJ #2 Wilt...others.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by FKAri
Wilt and Russell over Magic.

Top 5 have either "TRANSFORMED" the game or "TRANSENDED" the game.

Modern day great centers are based on either WILT or KAREEM.

Russell is an ultimate winner no doubt. But KAREEM & WILT were complete centers like modern day centers.

Kareem & Wilt were scoring champs & stuff. Russell was PURE DEFENSIVE center.

Modern day centers BASED their game on Kareem & Wilt so These 2 TRANSFORMED the game

Russell not as much.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyRyanYang
Would like to hear your reasons why Magic is so high up there

Its coming up.

There is a reason why I've MAGIC at # 3 GOAT such high ranking.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgodfather1
Without Russell paving the way there is no Kareem.

It's funny, because Kareem has specifically talked about watching Russell and being influenced by him, and there was one season (I don't recall which one off the top of my head), Kareem specifically modelled his game after Russell and that season he passed for a career high in assists that year and I believe was First Team All Defense for the first time in some years. I may post it when I get back home.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Kareem
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:33 PM   #21
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgodfather1
Without Russell paving the way there is no Kareem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r
It's funny, because Kareem has specifically talked about watching Russell and being influenced by him, and there was one season (I don't recall which one off the top of my head), Kareem specifically modelled his game after Russell and that season he passed for a career high in assists that year and I believe was First Team All Defense for the first time in some years. I may post it when I get back home.

I have the article that you're speaking of. It was the 1978-79 season.

...But Bill Russell won the championships and was held in higher esteem. Russell was the first player I ever watched closely, and I'm playing similarly to Russell now."

Source- Nov. 15, 1978

Last edited by jlip : 02-27-2013 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Honestly Magic is overrated, in this list and in general. Top 10 without a doubt, but cutting your career 5 years short (at least) and still breaking top 5 just doesn't make sense, the standards are too high. Inspirational player, incredible and tragic the way he had to step down (he should have just kept playing) .. but Magic is the one who should be displaced when there is person deserving of top 5 recognition. I'm not saying who that should be, but any number of players had full resumes that eclipsed what Magic, great as he was, was able to accomplished in his shortened career. Start with BR and go from there..


PS on the other hand if you want to make a top 5 picking the best player at every position there is no question Magic is the best PG of all time. I am flummoxed.

Last edited by Mrofir : 02-27-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Wilt wilted like a dying flower in the playoffs.

When Wilt was asked if he didn't have a killer instinct, he said, "It can be said."

Here's a stat:
In the last 3 Game 7s vs Boston, Wilt's team lost by a combined margin of 7 points. Wilt missed 25 freethrows, shooting 16-41.

"No one has any clutch stories on Chamberlain. If they existed, I'd pass them along."

- Bill Simmons

Give me MJ, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan over Wilt.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlip
I have the article that you're speaking of. It was the 1978-79 season.

...But Bill Russell won the championships and was held in higher esteem. Russell was the first player I ever watched closely, and I'm playing similarly to Russell now."

Source- Nov. 15, 1978

Dude....seriously!

MJ said he was influenced by DAVID THOMPSON

Kobe said his hero growing up was MAGIC JOHNSON but his game says MJ.

Modern day BIG MEN from PFs to all the great centers that came in the '80s & '90s were influenced by KAREEM's & WILT's style of dominating play on offense.

Russell comes after because he is much more DEFENSIVE center. He deferred scoring to HAVLECHECK & COUSY.

'80s & '90s CENTERS did not Differ scoring their SF or SG on their team. Heck even some of the centers like D'Rob & SHAQ led NBA in Scoring for Season or two just like WILT & KAREEM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce Bigalow
"No one has any clutch stories on Chamberlain. If they existed, I'd pass them along."

- Bill Simmons

I don't have any vested interest either way, but in the interest of objectivity, while Wilt certainly had his issues, that statement is a bit unfair, as one immediately came to mind just off the top of my head when I read that. Ignorance of something doesn't mean it never happened.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:38 PM   #26
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
Dude....seriously!

MJ said he was influenced by DAVID THOMPSON

Kobe said his hero growing up was MAGIC JOHNSON but his game says MJ.

Modern day BIG MEN from PFs to all the great centers that came in the '80s & '90s were influenced by KAREEM's & WILT's style of dominating play on offense.

Russell comes after because he is much more DEFENSIVE center. He deferred scoring to HAVLECHECK & COUSY.

So basically, you're one of the people who believe that offense >>> defense, and so looking through that filter, players are only able to transform or revolutionize the league through offense. So even though, for instance, previously aforementioned centers Ewing and Robinson were actually the latest in a long line of "next Bill Russells" when they entered the league (look it up if you didn't know), that doesn't particularly matter. It's your prerogative, though you should just come out and say that, IYO, defense doesn't cpunt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
'80s & '90s CENTERS did not Differ scoring their SF or SG on their team. Heck even some of the centers like D'Rob & SHAQ led NBA in Scoring for Season or two just like WILT & KAREEM.

Ironic in that Wilt won nothing unti he started differing scoring (and also had his best season), and that it was when he differed scoring even more and played in the manner of Russell that his team set a single-season record for wins.

And George Mikan was leading the NBA in scoring as a center before either Wilt or Kareem came along, and when Kareem and Shaq won titles as the league's leading scorer as a center, they were emulating Mikan. If one is going to talk about history and who's doing what like who, at least do it correctly.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r
So basically, you're one of the people who believe that offense >>> defense, and so looking through that filter, players are only able to transform or revolutionize the league through offense. So even though, for instance, previously aforementioned centers Ewing and Robinson were actually the latest in a long line of "next Bill Russells" when they entered the league (look it up if you didn't know), that doesn't particularly matter. It's your prerogative, though you should just come out and say that, IYO, defense doesn't cpunt.



Ironic in that Wilt won nothing unti he started differing scoring (and also had his best season), and that it was when he differed scoring even more and played in the manner of Russell that his team set a single-season record for wins.

And George Mikan was leading the NBA in scoring as a center before either Wilt or Kareem came along, and when Kareem and Shaq won titles as the league's leading scorer as a center, they were emulating Mikan. If one is going to talk about history and who's doing what like who, at least do it correctly.

Whether I like OFFENSE or DEFENSE is not an issue here!

Whether WILT tanked in Post-season is not an issue here either!

The following is the REAL & ONLY issue....

WHICH CENTER(s) WAS / WERE COPIED, INFLUENCED, EMULATED THE MOST BY FUTURE GENERATIONS OF BIG MEN.

Its between WILT & KAREEM.


RUSSELL's defensive minded game really did not influence as much as many are making out to be here on FUTURE big men of '80s & '90s.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

I stopped reading at the part where Dennis Rodman was the greatest rebounder of all time.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: Top 5 GOAT: MJ --> KAREEM --> MAGIC --> WILT --> BIRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
Whether I like OFFENSE or DEFENSE is not an issue here!

It is, as it's the filter through which you look at basketball and judge players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
Whether WILT tanked in Post-season is not an issue here either!

No, it isn't, but you seemed to have missed the point if that's the part you latched on to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
The following is the REAL & ONLY issue....

WHICH CENTER(s) WAS / WERE COPIED, INFLUENCED, EMULATED THE MOST BY FUTURE GENERATIONS OF BIG MEN.

Its between WILT & KAREEM.

Who themselves have both emulated Russell at some point of their careers, which is the irony that you're unaware of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
RUSSELL's defensive minded game really did not influence as much as many are making out to be here on FUTURE big men of '80s & '90s.

Frankly, I'm not interested in arguing with you, as internet arguments are pointless, and people who have their minds made up won't change despite any evidence to the contrary. We're simply not on the same level of understanding. You're just not aware of how centers from one end like Samuel Dalembert to the other end like three-time Defensive Player of the Year Dwight Howard, have watched film of Russell, studied him, etc (though evidently it didn't do anything for Howard, as he still insisted on knocking shots out of bounds, and a study on the subject actually showed he had the least valuable shotblocking in the league). Or how people hoped, to stay contemporary, that from Patrick Ewing to David Robinson, to Dwight Howard, to Anthony Davis as he came out would be the next Russell. Or how you hear big men talking about keeping shots inbounds like Russell did. Or papers published on how to play interior defense which talk about things Russell was saying almost 50 years ago before anyone thought to analyze it. But whatever. You just have more research to do in order to become more informed. You can either take it or leave it. Doesn't particularly matter to me, as I don't profit either way. It isn't an attack either, so don't take it the wrong way. But there's really no point in me continuing this, so this is the last I'll have to say on this matter.
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