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Old 02-24-2013, 12:47 PM   #31
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagexslave
"Super Teams" ruin the league.

I like parity.
You like something that has never existed, so wrong league
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:48 PM   #32
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgodfather1
he wasn't the best player.

Yeah, the consensus during those years was that Shaq was the best player in the NBA, but if you try using that to discredit Kobe then you also have to remember that the consensus was that Kobe was the second best player in the league starting around the 2001 playoffs. The gap was much larger in 2000, but Kobe was still a top 10 player in the league and the best shooting guard in the league. Kobe's performances and level of play during the 2001 and 2002 playoffs was better than some championship team's first option which is why you can't just judge rings as "first option rings" or "second option rings" without context. Sorry but labeling Kobe's rings in 2001 and 2002 as "not the best player on his team" doesn't do his level of play justice and is diminishing what he actually was ... it was far more a two headed monster in LA in 2001/2002 than it was just Shaq, and his little side-kick Robin aka Kobe Bryant like Kobe haters like to believe.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:48 PM   #33
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

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The Heat's combination of talent at the top of the roster is almost unprecedented.
Hardly. The 00s Lakers had 2 top 5 players; the 90s Bulls had two top 5 players; the 80s Lakers had two top 5 players (plus a number one pick and HOFer tacked on to that) and the 80s Celtics had three top "something" players (top ten? fifteen? I'm not sure how Parish and McHale ranked at that point).

The Heat meanwhile have the best player, another player toward the bottom of the top 8, and another player toward the bottom of the top 20. They have no center and no point guard. Ray Allen has been about as good and no better than any other starter-ish 2 guard would have been and Rashard Lewis doesn't play. Shane Battier and Joel are offensive nonfactors (in fact liabilities except for Battier's wide open 3s, which he manages to make fewer than 40% of) and they're one of the worst rebounding and interior defensive teams in the league.

Their two best players are the same player and neither of them are very effective outside of fifteen feet. Their third best player is 7 feet tall and is not very effective *inside* of fifteen feet.

I used to think the Heat were too stacked, that the Lakers were, that the 08 Celtics were... but they're really not. That just play great team basketball and have great roleplayers and a couple great stars. How can we ask that our top teams be made any differently? We've proven time and time again you can't just stack a ton of great players and win a title (remember Hakeem + Chuck + Pip? How about Howard + Bryant + Gasol + Nash?). You have to have a team, and your top players are only one part of that dynamic. (And, as the 04 Pistons proved, a totally unnecessary one.)
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:49 PM   #34
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Yes. Everybody should give up, especially because ESPN says so and they're always right.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:54 PM   #35
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

If the refs dont favor the heat i can see at least 7 teams beating them.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:58 PM   #36
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagexslave
"Super Teams" ruin the league.

I like parity.


The NBA hasn't had parity in awhile. From 99 until 2010 it mostly Spurs and Lakers taking turns winning titles. The 90s belonged to the Bulls.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:59 PM   #37
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
If the refs dont favor the heat i can see at least 7 teams beating them.
I too am struck by how *beatable* the Heat actually are.

They're like the Spurs. The Spurs have the best record in the L come playoff time every year it seems. Yet nobody actually favors them over the Thunder. The Heat are beating up on today's weak league by getting a lot of fastbreaks and Lebron never has to take any shots outside of the paint and it all looks so easy... but guess what... a 7 game series with the Pacers is not going to be that easy. This is not a team that has consistently responded well to challenges. They did often enough last year to get the title, beating an old and battered Celtics team barely in 7 games, and an inexperienced Thunder team whose core was all under 24. (And that series could have gone a lot differently too if not for a fairly egregious no-call.) The Heat can lose to anyone good.

I think they'll just pull out another title, but it won't be a breeze. No way.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:07 PM   #38
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton
I too am struck by how *beatable* the Heat actually are.

They're like the Spurs. The Spurs have the best record in the L come playoff time every year it seems. Yet nobody actually favors them over the Thunder. The Heat are beating up on today's weak league by getting a lot of fastbreaks and Lebron never has to take any shots outside of the paint and it all looks so easy... but guess what... a 7 game series with the Pacers is not going to be that easy. This is not a team that has consistently responded well to challenges. They did often enough last year to get the title, beating an old and battered Celtics team barely in 7 games, and an inexperienced Thunder team whose core was all under 24. (And that series could have gone a lot differently too if not for a fairly egregious no-call.) The Heat can lose to anyone good.

I think they'll just pull out another title, but it won't be a breeze. No way.

Nice job coming off as a biased little b.itch. You do know the Thunder played in the WCF the season before, right? And the Heat were missing Bosh for most of the Celtics series. Not to mention Wade had knee injury the whole playoffs. And using the refs to defend OKC is a joke. Durant gets the most love from the refs out of any superstar in the league
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:16 PM   #39
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
7th seed. They give Kobe the MVP in 2006, than they have to change the whole criteria for handing out the award.

Well if you don't think leading your team with a lineup of Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown to the playoffs with 45 wins (0-2 in the games without him) in the most stacked conference in NBA history while putting up 36/5/5/2 on 56 TS% 45 FG% isn't deserving of MVP then I don't know what to tell you.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:19 PM   #40
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Will bump when the Clippers win the championship.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #41
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton
Hardly. The 00s Lakers had 2 top 5 players; the 90s Bulls had two top 5 players; the 80s Lakers had two top 5 players (plus a number one pick and HOFer tacked on to that) and the 80s Celtics had three top "something" players (top ten? fifteen? I'm not sure how Parish and McHale ranked at that point).

The Heat meanwhile have the best player, another player toward the bottom of the top 8, and another player toward the bottom of the top 20. They have no center and no point guard. Ray Allen has been about as good and no better than any other starter-ish 2 guard would have been and Rashard Lewis doesn't play. Shane Battier and Joel are offensive nonfactors (in fact liabilities except for Battier's wide open 3s, which he manages to make fewer than 40% of) and they're one of the worst rebounding and interior defensive teams in the league.

Their two best players are the same player and neither of them are very effective outside of fifteen feet. Their third best player is 7 feet tall and is not very effective *inside* of fifteen feet.

I used to think the Heat were too stacked, that the Lakers were, that the 08 Celtics were... but they're really not. That just play great team basketball and have great roleplayers and a couple great stars. How can we ask that our top teams be made any differently? We've proven time and time again you can't just stack a ton of great players and win a title (remember Hakeem + Chuck + Pip? How about Howard + Bryant + Gasol + Nash?). You have to have a team, and your top players are only one part of that dynamic. (And, as the 04 Pistons proved, a totally unnecessary one.)

Relative to league average, LeBron might have the best offensive supporting cast in history.

Top 2 SG/Top 6-7 player in Wade.
Top 5 PF/Top 15 player in Bosh.

And a ridiculous amount of excellent shooters to space the floor for him:
Ray Allen (4.0 3PA/42%)
Chalmers (3.4 3PA/40%)
Battier (4.5 3PA/41%)
Lewis (2.1 3PA/42%)
Miller (3.8 3PA/39%)

Absolutely insane. If you were going to create the perfect offensive supporting cast for a perimeter superstar, this would be it.

They're easily one of the most talented team ever.

They have two superstars who are both already top five at their position of all-time along with another franchisee caliber player/borderline HOFer.

Wade is a top 25 - 30 guy of all-time. And they have a perennial elite PF who is top five at his position standing within the league.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:23 PM   #42
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne 1
Well if you don't think leading your team with a lineup of Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown to the playoffs with 45 wins (0-2 in the games without him) in the most stacked conference in NBA history while putting up 36/5/5/2 on 56 TS% 45 FG% isn't deserving of MVP then I don't know what to tell you.


7th seed.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:44 PM   #43
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

*subject to health and match up

If the finals came down to either the Grizzlies, Spurs, or maybe the Lakers vs the Heat, I'd be somewhat worried for Miami. Those are the only teams I can see taking 3 of 7 and 4 if they have their best game of the entire year. I don't see anyone of those going past the Thunder though.......well, possibly the Spurs...they will miss Harden vs Ginobili.

I can't see OKC or the Clips beating the Heat yet. Maybe next year.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:29 PM   #44
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton
Hardly. The 00s Lakers had 2 top 5 players; the 90s Bulls had two top 5 players; the 80s Lakers had two top 5 players (plus a number one pick and HOFer tacked on to that) and the 80s Celtics had three top "something" players (top ten? fifteen? I'm not sure how Parish and McHale ranked at that point).

The Heat meanwhile have the best player, another player toward the bottom of the top 8, and another player toward the bottom of the top 20. They have no center and no point guard. Ray Allen has been about as good and no better than any other starter-ish 2 guard would have been and Rashard Lewis doesn't play. Shane Battier and Joel are offensive nonfactors (in fact liabilities except for Battier's wide open 3s, which he manages to make fewer than 40% of) and they're one of the worst rebounding and interior defensive teams in the league.

Their two best players are the same player and neither of them are very effective outside of fifteen feet. Their third best player is 7 feet tall and is not very effective *inside* of fifteen feet.

I used to think the Heat were too stacked, that the Lakers were, that the 08 Celtics were... but they're really not. That just play great team basketball and have great roleplayers and a couple great stars. How can we ask that our top teams be made any differently? We've proven time and time again you can't just stack a ton of great players and win a title (remember Hakeem + Chuck + Pip? How about Howard + Bryant + Gasol + Nash?). You have to have a team, and your top players are only one part of that dynamic. (And, as the 04 Pistons proved, a totally unnecessary one.)

How they were assembled matters. This team was not built through the draft or trades or even the normal process of free agency.

This was a case where the top three players in a free agent bonanza year were guilty of collusion. And for two of them, it was tantamount to if, in the 80s, two out of three among Jordan/Johnson/Bird had decided to team up, because the Heat inarguably had two of the best three players in the world when they formed.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:38 PM   #45
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Default Re: Should the league just give up now? No one can beat the Heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton
I too am struck by how *beatable* the Heat actually are.

They're like the Spurs. The Spurs have the best record in the L come playoff time every year it seems. Yet nobody actually favors them over the Thunder. The Heat are beating up on today's weak league by getting a lot of fastbreaks and Lebron never has to take any shots outside of the paint and it all looks so easy... but guess what... a 7 game series with the Pacers is not going to be that easy. This is not a team that has consistently responded well to challenges. They did often enough last year to get the title, beating an old and battered Celtics team barely in 7 games, and an inexperienced Thunder team whose core was all under 24. (And that series could have gone a lot differently too if not for a fairly egregious no-call.) The Heat can lose to anyone good.

I think they'll just pull out another title, but it won't be a breeze. No way.

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