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Old 02-14-2013, 04:35 PM   #46
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

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Originally Posted by Kingwillball
One thing people Forget is that players of the 90's are not as Big or strong as today physically. Artest a SF was as BIg as Barkley a PF..and Lebron has his way with Artest. Lebron would stand out even more if he was this big and explosive playing against skinny guys. I mean yesterday there was a ton aot Jordan highlights and back than Jordan was considered Big and strong for his position but seriously looked Skinny compared to some of todays players.

I get your point, and think there is some validity to it, except Jordan from the at least '92 on wasn't skinny compared to just about any 2 guard. He didn't start lifting weights until either the '89-'90 season or '90-'91 season, and he was already strong, but there was a noticeable difference in Jordan's physique from '92 on. Kobe for the most part has been skinnier than Jordan with the exception of '03 and '05, and seems to naturally have a more difficult time carrying that weight which explains the knee problems which started after he bulked up to 220-225 for the 2002-2003 season. And why he had his best seasons when he lost 15 pounds for '06 and 20 pounds for '08. Even so, Kobe is a lot stronger than his size would suggest, and has no problem posting up any 2 guard, even a guy like Wade who is heavier. MJ was the same way pre-'91 or '92, but after that he looked big compared to other 2 guards then or now. Same with a guy like Drexler.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:43 PM   #47
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

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Originally Posted by Kingwillball
One thing people Forget is that players of the 90's are not as Big or strong as today physically. Artest a SF was as BIg as Barkley a PF..and Lebron has his way with Artest. Lebron would stand out even more if he was this big and explosive playing against skinny guys. I mean yesterday there was a ton aot Jordan highlights and back than Jordan was considered Big and strong for his position but seriously looked Skinny compared to some of todays players.


Applicable strength >>> Popcorn muscles

Strength in basketball doesn't just come from the size of one's physique. Your ignorance is alarming regarding this subject.

And no, the players of the 90's just 15 - 20 years ago aren't some regressed version of the modern athlete in terms of strength. This myth has to stop. Like humans super evolved athletically in two decades.

Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, those guys just for example were bigger than LeBron. Mason might've even been quicker than LeBron, too.

The size and strength of players from the 90's are comparable to today. I'd actually suggest players of the 90's were sleeker because they required more stamina. The game was a little bit faster and more free flowing than it is today. Most likely due to better ball movement.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:00 PM   #48
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

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Originally Posted by Money 23


Applicable strength >>> Popcorn muscles

Strength in basketball doesn't just come from the size of one's physique. Your ignorance is alarming regarding this subject.

And no, the players of the 90's just 15 - 20 years ago aren't some regressed version of the modern athlete in terms of strength. This myth has to stop. Like humans super evolved athletically in two decades.

Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, those guys just for example were bigger than LeBron. Mason might've even been quicker than LeBron, too.

The size and strength of players from the 90's are comparable to today. I'd actually suggest players of the 90's were sleeker because they required more stamina. The game was a little bit faster and more free flowing than it is today. Most likely due to better ball movement.

This is god awfully ignorant and reeks of an agenda.

Popcorn muscles? There is no such thing when you weigh 220+ pounds. If you weigh 220lbs and have visible muscles, such as LeBron does, they aren't just there for show. There is substance there, a lot of it actually.

Your lame functional strength argument works.. when comparing a bodybuilder to a basketball player, but not two basketball players. I'm not saying there isn't a few guys stronger than LeBron, but to say they have a higher functional strength than a guy that is bigger than them that has similar skills is completely false.

In every single sport requiring any physical activity, every athlete is physically superior to what the same athletes were 20 years ago, and it's not even a mini-step, it's a large one. There is a reason why the NFL is making a ton of protective rules now and not 20 years ago, there is a reason MLB records are being broken daily, there is a reason that old school MMA legends try to make a return and get flattened.. Whether or not it's substance assisted or just due to superior knowledge and equipment/techniques known now, athletes now are just flat out superior. You have to deal with it.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:04 PM   #49
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Lesser FG% but Higher Amount of FTs. He Wouldn`t Score that Much Shooting Wise or Rebound that Much in the Paint cause The Style of Play Inside Was Much Tougher and Defense 1 on 1 Was More Free to Do What You Wan`t Defensively. His Passing Ability Would Shine More cause He`d Probably Play With Better Offensive Players in the Frontline Specially. Everyone New How To Shoot the Mid Range and Post Up. Handchecking Wouldn`t Bother Him That Much Cause of His Quickness, Agility, Strength and Power.

25 PPG (52% FG), 8.5 APG, 7.0 RPG, 2.0 SPG & 1.0 BPG

Last edited by Round Mound : 02-14-2013 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:08 PM   #50
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

LeBron would still be LeBron, lets not let nostalgia get in the way because it's 100% fact that anyone who thinks otherwise is.

Plus hes WAAAAAAAY more athletic than the players back then compared to today.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:05 PM   #51
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

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Originally Posted by OldSchoolBBall
I want to get one thing out of the way: hand checking works on everyone. It's called physics.

Anyway, Lebron would still be dominant, but he wouldn't be putting up the numbers he is today, especially efficiency-wise (he could certainly average 27/8/6 or whatever on a good team).
If you ever tried it with a bigger player? To get any leverage you have to pivot your back leg for it to mean anything. The imbalance slows down your foot movement considerable. Karl Malone is waaaay slower than Lebron. Barkley always did it.

Wasn't the game more wide open then? Didn't they shoot better from the field?
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:11 PM   #52
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
If you ever tried it with a bigger player? To get any leverage you have to pivot your back leg for it to mean anything. The imbalance slows down your foot movement considerable. Karl Malone is waaaay slower than Lebron. Barkley always did it.

Wasn't the game more wide open then? Didn't they shoot better from the field?

Handchecking won't stop a player 100% of the time. What hand checking does do is help you stay in front even if it's simply half a step. It can help you re-route the offensive player which can be big in a game situation. It allows the defense to help out, it can force the offensive player from driving to pulling up. it can also help the defensive player tremendously depending on the angle he's playing.

But more importantly, hand checking allows for less fouls.

If you allow hand checking today, there'd be less fouls being called. Less fouls being called allows the defense the ability to be more aggressive.

So NO a player won't get stopped every possession, but it helps a ton in many other ways. If you're a slower or weaker player it gives you some aid and basically a tool to allow you to be more effective defensively.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:54 PM   #53
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

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Originally Posted by Pointguard
What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.

he would dominate
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:11 PM   #54
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

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Originally Posted by jlip
30-34 yr old Dominique Wilkins avg. 26-30ppg/ 6-9rpg from '90-'94. Please tell me why a prime Lebron would be any worse than that.

My generation is turning into our parents. They always told us stories of how every single thing they did was harder "back in the day." They had to "walk uphill in the snow with no shoes" to go everywhere. We are doing the same thing. Now we are acting like every star today would lose 5ppg, 2rpg, 1apg, and 3-5% points off their fg% because everything was "so tough" just 20 years ago. It's like all 82 games were played against the '89 Pistons or the '92 Knicks, or fouls weren't called if there wasn't blood when we know that's not true. We need to stop that.

There were good defensive teams and flat horrible and scrub teams defensively also. I remember complaining about superstars getting touch fouls called in their favor, and even remember other players complaining about the touch, questionable fouls that superstars were benefiting from.
Can't rep you again. The Knicks and Pistons had crazy grittines - they were a level above the rest and most teams were bad defensively.

In general, I didn't start getting close seats until the mid to late 90's so I can't really speak about the early 90's but my impression was the whole decade was incredibly slow. Tim Hardaway stood out but he wasn't first tier today. Chris Mullin, Glenn Robinson, Glenn Rice, Xavier McDaniel, Antoine Walker all of whom noticably moved slower than Odom were the top scoring SF. Dominique was a little bit faster but not really Rudy Gay's speed. SG Finley, Richmond, and Spreewell would be too slow for Lebron. These guys were all top ten scorers. Lebron would be noticeably faster than all the skilled players. Not as quick as Jordan but he surely looks faster. Shaq used to run down court and beat players down court. It was Orlando strategy.

The other categories for me are strength, defensive schemes, skilled players, other penetrators and convulted lanes.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:12 PM   #55
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23


Applicable strength >>> Popcorn muscles

Strength in basketball doesn't just come from the size of one's physique. Your ignorance is alarming regarding this subject.

And no, the players of the 90's just 15 - 20 years ago aren't some regressed version of the modern athlete in terms of strength. This myth has to stop. Like humans super evolved athletically in two decades.

Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, those guys just for example were bigger than LeBron. Mason might've even been quicker than LeBron, too.

The size and strength of players from the 90's are comparable to today. I'd actually suggest players of the 90's were sleeker because they required more stamina. The game was a little bit faster and more free flowing than it is today. Most likely due to better ball movement.

I think Dwight has been a pretty good example of popcorn muscles. He's very cut which makes people assume he's more overpowering on the court than he really is, especially since his lowerbody is relatively weak. Lebron on the otherhand is a whole different animal. Look at how he finishes with contact. He's big and strong, but not with a particularly impressive physique from a bodybuilding standpoint. But this is a guy who weighed 245 at 18 years old and didn't even look filled out.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:29 PM   #56
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

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Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
I get your point, and think there is some validity to it, except Jordan from the at least '92 on wasn't skinny compared to just about any 2 guard. He didn't start lifting weights until either the '89-'90 season or '90-'91 season, and he was already strong, but there was a noticeable difference in Jordan's physique from '92 on. Kobe for the most part has been skinnier than Jordan with the exception of '03 and '05, and seems to naturally have a more difficult time carrying that weight which explains the knee problems which started after he bulked up to 220-225 for the 2002-2003 season. And why he had his best seasons when he lost 15 pounds for '06 and 20 pounds for '08. Even so, Kobe is a lot stronger than his size would suggest, and has no problem posting up any 2 guard, even a guy like Wade who is heavier. MJ was the same way pre-'91 or '92, but after that he looked big compared to other 2 guards then or now. Same with a guy like Drexler.



Yeah More like 80's Jordan was skinny he filled out towards end of career and Drexler was my Favorite player back in the Day
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:33 PM   #57
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
I think Dwight has been a pretty good example of popcorn muscles. He's very cut which makes people assume he's more overpowering on the court than he really is, especially since his lowerbody is relatively weak. Lebron on the otherhand is a whole different animal. Look at how he finishes with contact. He's big and strong, but not with a particularly impressive physique from a bodybuilding standpoint. But this is a guy who weighed 245 at 18 years old and didn't even look filled out.

Exactly, correcting for Dwight's frame and height, he is not in any way shape or form extremely muscular. He has a low body fat which makes him appear "ripped" but he is no where near thick or "big" muscular wise.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:33 PM   #58
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23


Applicable strength >>> Popcorn muscles

Strength in basketball doesn't just come from the size of one's physique. Your ignorance is alarming regarding this subject.

And no, the players of the 90's just 15 - 20 years ago aren't some regressed version of the modern athlete in terms of strength. This myth has to stop. Like humans super evolved athletically in two decades.

Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, those guys just for example were bigger than LeBron. Mason might've even been quicker than LeBron, too.

The size and strength of players from the 90's are comparable to today. I'd actually suggest players of the 90's were sleeker because they required more stamina. The game was a little bit faster and more free flowing than it is today. Most likely due to better ball movement.

Be respectful. He didn't come at you like that.

Anthony Mason wasn't fast enough to get around guards. Lebron gets around everybody. The poster didn't say everybody evolved, Lebron is very different. His weight is evenly distributed as it gets. From head to toe he looks like he weighs as much as Oakley when he was on the Knicks. Anthony Mason had no legs what so ever but was massive up top. Looked freakish and it shortened his career. Knees and back couldn't take the weight.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:34 PM   #59
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Depends on the team. I don't think he'll score as efficiency because Wade and Bosh plus shooters eliminates double teams.

But he does have the skillset to average similar averages. So I don't think it'll be that much of a drop off. He might score more depending on the team.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:36 PM   #60
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

What world do people live in these days? He's doing the same things as he's doing now.
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