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Old 02-14-2013, 02:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave3
Yeah, people always tend to confuse hard fouls in the 90's with better defense. They weren't allowed to just shove guys without foul calls or anything. Fouls back then were called just like they are now. Maybe a flagrant today would've been just a hard foul then, but a foul today would still have been a foul then. I don't think LeBron would have been any worse at all back then. If anything he would have had a slightly more athletic advantage in his younger years.

No. fouls today wouldn't have been called the same way.

There are dozens upon dozens of fouls that are called today that wouldn't have been called back then. And it's mostly the tick tack kind that hurt you the most.

But the biggest difference is how a team and player plays due to the rules. Example..

let's say I'm guarding you in today's game. I put my hand check you slightly as you drive, I get a foul called. Next possession, you drive and a man rotates touching you, foul called. That already puts the defense in a tough situation to guard, now you receive less resistance to getting anywhere. Being cautious, I guard you again in the next possession, tick tack touch foul is called on me. Now I can't touch you so my defense on you is extremely handicapped. This happens every game to just about every player.

Let's take this back to the past eras.

Those same possessions won't get called fouls. So that gives me as a defender a bit more freedom to be aggressive. It gives my team the opportunity to play you tougher for extra possessions. These add up during the course of a game, naturally not everything will be allowed, but the rules are already in the defense favor. Now you combine that with the other plays that don't usually get called such as screens, elbows (while in the paint) etc.etc. it wears down the offensive player and gives the defense more freedom.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
Come on now.... he would be just fine in the 90s, guaranteed not worse than today...

He's just learning to post.
He can't move without the ball at all.
His shot has improved, but with more resistance it will take a dip.
The lane will be far more clogged, thus eliminating many of his drives down the lane.
He'd also get fouled more without him getting the calls, which will eliminate some of the fts he gets and give the defense freedom to be more physical.

All of this adds up during the course of a game, the course of a season, the course of a career.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

He would still be dominant. Come on, what is this? Getting hit doesn't do anything to him and really never has since he's so big. You really think he'd be worse than Barkley? I doubt that. Remember, zone defenses weren't allowed back then which is how the Spurs completely shut young-lebron down. I'm guessing he would still be top 2 or 3 in the league behind Jordan and Prime Chuck/Shaq/Hakeem depending on the year.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

He'd be better than Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, (young) Kobe, etc. but Jordan and Shaq would still be better players.

It would be a lot more physical with better centers back then too.

He'd still be a top player obviously. Basketball is still basketball it's not like things have changed *that* much.

I think the game changed *a lot* in the 1970s, was refined in the 80s, and sort of leveled off in the 90s.

Last edited by Soundwave : 02-14-2013 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
Come on now.... he would be just fine in the 90s, guaranteed not worse than today...

His efficiency would certainly be worse. He could, however, put up 27-30/7-9 reb/5-7 ast on any team. He would be similarly dominant, but not AS dominant.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
He's just learning to post.
He can't move without the ball at all.
His shot has improved, but with more resistance it will take a dip.
The lane will be far more clogged, thus eliminating many of his drives down the lane.
He'd also get fouled more without him getting the calls, which will eliminate some of the fts he gets and give the defense freedom to be more physical.

All of this adds up during the course of a game, the course of a season, the course of a career.

Just now learning the post because he came into the league when it was already a slashing league rather than post.

He would probably learn how to move without the ball since he wouldn't be brought up in a league consisting primarily of ISOs and where ball movement was a bigger part of the culture. I actually think he would've been a more complete player if he came in the league in the 90s cause he woulda started with a more fundamental base rather than 1 on 5 offense on the Cavs.

His shot has improved but was never why he was dominant anyway.

The lane is much more clogged now since zones are legal.

MJ still got freethrows...so would Lebron.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:33 PM   #22
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
He'd be better than Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, (young) Kobe, etc. but Jordan and Shaq would still be better players.

It would be a lot more physical with better centers back then too.

He'd still be a top player obviously. Basketball is still basketball it's not like things have changed *that* much.

I think the game changed *a lot* in the 1970s, was refined in the 80s, and sort of leveled off in the 90s.

It has changed enough to make a difference.

The game is more perimeter oriented due to the rule changes that encourage perimeter scoring and punish the defense.

There's also less ball movement today with far more one on one, which helps perimeter players statistically. If you saw the clip that was posted in which MJ got a triple double in 21 minutes, you'd see how he didn't dominate the ball like Bron and most of today's players do today. That was how the game was played back then, can you imagine Bron having the same stats if he didn't have it in his hands as often? they'd probably take a slight dip.

The lane being clogged was a huge deterrent for offensive players back then.

So yeah, the game has changed enough to make a difference when you combine all of this plus more factors that I may have missed.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:38 PM   #23
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Lebron would have developed a post game much sooner. His efficiency would be lower. I agree some people here think that they didn't call fouls or they allowed guys to just fight back in the 90's. Not true. It was more physical, but it was not some stupid playground garbage. Lebron is a big guy, but he's really not that physical, he tries to avoid contact. He would still be very good, but would not stand out like he does today.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

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Originally Posted by Duncan21formvp
Less rebounds for him for sure and worse FG% with the amount of defensive guys in the league that protected the paint.
More like 31/8/8 on 56-57 FG%, 42 3-pt%, 2 steals per game.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:52 PM   #25
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
Coaches wouldn't allow him to dominate the ball as much, and his off the ball game is mediocre.

This is something I agree with and the biggest difference I believe, though I agree about the paint being more clogged. I also don't think he'd have attempted anywhere five threes like he was in Cleveland, probably always closer to the amount he's been shooting in Miami.

I don't know if he'd be more or less dominant, but it's obvious he'd still be among the game's best players, and at certain points, more later in the decade, he'd probably be the best in the game, imo.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

I think the biggest difference would be the presence of a rim protector more often, because of the lack of def 3 sec rule and the league having more of them.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:05 PM   #27
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

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Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
That Wizards team's physical defense was nothing compared to the Bad Boy Pistons.
This

The Wizards had no one that was in Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman and Salley level of nastiness, not even close...
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

poor mans andray blatche
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

30-34 yr old Dominique Wilkins avg. 26-30ppg/ 6-9rpg from '90-'94. Please tell me why a prime Lebron would be any worse than that.

My generation is turning into our parents. They always told us stories of how every single thing they did was harder "back in the day." They had to "walk uphill in the snow with no shoes" to go everywhere. We are doing the same thing. Now we are acting like every star today would lose 5ppg, 2rpg, 1apg, and 3-5% points off their fg% because everything was "so tough" just 20 years ago. It's like all 82 games were played against the '89 Pistons or the '92 Knicks, or fouls weren't called if there wasn't blood when we know that's not true. We need to stop that.

There were good defensive teams and flat horrible and scrub teams defensively also. I remember complaining about superstars getting touch fouls called in their favor, and even remember other players complaining about the touch, questionable fouls that superstars were benefiting from.

Last edited by jlip : 02-14-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: Lebron in the 1990's

Hmm….

I think his game would be a mixture of Clyde and Nique. Somewhere along those two.

Again as I stated, still an all star, but with reduced numbers and efficiency than today. Easier to guard than he is today.
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