Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just2McFly
First two sentences are rich coming from a guy who said Wade has a better career than Dirk.
EDIT: D-Rob and Ewing have better careers too as well?
Dirk is criminally underrated on the all-time list. But Wade was better in the 2 Finals series they met. Yes. Wade was better than Dirk in 2011. Wade might have never won an MVP but his prime and peak years are sure as hell better than Dirk's.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
Not Including:
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Moses
Erving
Baylor
West
Oscar
Isiah
Nash
Kidd
Iverson
Mikan
But sure, I'll take your word for it, he's top 20 all-time.
The way people rank, he's going to rank ahead of a lot of those guys...including, for example, Patrick. I disagree with Patrick, and I do prefer Kidd, as well...but Iverson has no argument. I would prefer Nash but Nash never put together that run and I know most people take Dirk...and that's fine. But he should be in the top 30.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripthekik
the main thing Dirk has going for him is that EPIC CHAMPIONSHIP RUN, where he proved 1 single superstar can do it, and you don't need to stacked stars together like chumps. He deserves major props for that, man got huge balls.
Miami was more talented, but let's not act like Dirk's roster wasn't "stacked" ... there is a difference.
And if memory serves me correctly, the Mavs were never that good until they got the interior defense of Tyson Chandler. They had talent at all the positions.
Top Twenty dudes wouldn't lose to an 8th seed with a 60+ win roster. I rank guys based on their game, peak play, longevity, AND team success. But I also take into account CONTEXT.
Barkley never got a ring because he ran into the GOAT through much of his Eastern Conference career, and then in the Finals.
No one in their right mind would say Dirk was better than KG. But KG played on craptastic rosters his entire career in Minnesota apart from a year or two. He was always better than Dirk, and anchored a team with a ring to show for it.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
I think he does. Anyway, don't dodge. Name your top 20 of all-time that includes Dirk Nowitzki.
I'm not dodging shit.
You're throwing out any great name you can think of. Ewing, D-rob, Nash,Iverson, Wade and Mikan(seriously? ) show that you are. You want to win this "debate" instead of reading and actually comprehending what's going on.
You just want to find any hole in my argument and pounce on it.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
Miami was more talented, but let's not act like Dirk's roster wasn't "stacked" ... there is a difference.
And if memory serves me correctly, the Mavs were never that good until they got the interior defense of Tyson Chandler. They had talent at all the positions.
Top Twenty dudes wouldn't lose to an 8th seed with a 60+ win roster. I rank guys based on their game, peak play, longevity, AND team success. But I also take into account CONTEXT.
Barkley never got a ring because he ran into the GOAT through much of his Eastern Conference career, and then in the Finals.
No one in their right mind would say Dirk was better than KG. But KG played on craptastic rosters his entire career in Minnesota apart from a year or two. He was always better than Dirk, and anchored a team with a ring to show for it.
First of all, Barkley never got a ring because he lost. Stop boosting Jordan all the time.
Secondly, people here have vehemently debated KG vs Dirk for the past two years or so.
I have KG ahead of Dirk, but I felt that need to be noted.
Last edited by Just2McFly : 02-05-2013 at 01:16 AM.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just2McFly
I'm not dodging shit.
You're throwing out any great name you can think of. Ewing, D-rob, Nash,Iverson, Wade and Mikan(seriously? ) show that you are. You want to win this "debate" instead of reading and actually comprehending what's going on.
You just want to find any hole in my argument and pounce on it.
D-Rob has 2 rings and an MVP. How can he not be ranked above Dirk? Besides being the better player. He was a better player, and his resume is better.
Wade? His non MVP season (2009) is better than Dirk's ACTUAL MVP season (2007) ... he has a FMVP and 2x rings (about to be three this year) ... essentially will go down with at least 2 more rings than Dirk and out played him in BOTH of their Finals meetings.
Ewing was the better player, he doesn't have a ring or MVP on his resume because of a dude named MJ dominated his decade.
Dirk picked up his MVP in a two year transitional period of the league, when rules were trying to swing the direction back to entertaining, free-flowing basketball and getting away from the ultra slow controlled pace of the late 90s and early to mid 2000s.
Nash won an un-deserved MVP, and then Dirk did. The best player in the game during that time (2006, 2007) aka Kobe Bryant, was suffering on a meager and un-talented team that couldn't compete for a ring. So he was out the running.
Context kills Dirk's resume. He won his ring, in all sincerity, because one of the best players of all-time oddly pouted and withdrew himself from competition.
Iverson has an MVP and took a bunch of defensive role players to the Finals, on his 5'11 shoulders. Only to steal one win against the most dominant playoff team of all-time, lead by 2x top ten players of all-time (Shaq and Kobe) ... to me, more impressive than Dirk's 2006, 2007, or 2011.
Those guys have arguments. Either way, Dirk isn't top twenty of all-time. And I don't get why it's so difficult for you to just tell us your opinion on the top twenty guys of all-time. You should be able to bust it out quickly if you considered Dirk to be top twenty, that easily.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
Miami was more talented, but let's not act like Dirk's roster wasn't "stacked" ... there is a difference.
And if memory serves me correctly, the Mavs were never that good until they got the interior defense of Tyson Chandler. They had talent at all the positions.
Top Twenty dudes wouldn't lose to an 8th seed with a 60+ win roster. I rank guys based on their game, peak play, longevity, AND team success. But I also take into account CONTEXT.
Barkley never got a ring because he ran into the GOAT through much of his Eastern Conference career, and then in the Finals.
No one in their right mind would say Dirk was better than KG. But KG played on craptastic rosters his entire career in Minnesota apart from a year or two. He was always better than Dirk, and anchored a team with a ring to show for it.
Take things into context, then how does Lebron winning a ring in such a weak conference with such a talented team weight for you?
You would give shiit to dirk for losing to 8th seed with 60 win team, what would you give lebron to choking in the 2011 finals with 2 other franchise stars at his side with 55+ wins as well?
Dirk was a Gawd during that run, there's no denying it. He owned lebron, put him on a baby stroller, and kicked that thing down the street. For that, his place in history is cemented. One of the better playoff runs in NBA history.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
Charles Barkley ran into Jordan 3 times in his career, he certainly could have won titles when he didn't run into him, but didn't. At his peak, he's probably the best offensive PF the game has ever seen, though. Probably the best overall talent. I think Nowitzki had the better career.
And Nowitzki had to go through Bryant's Lakers, Durant's Thunder, and the James/Wade/Bosh Heat. Certainly not and easy task. Even his 2006 run, if they don't blow that 2-0 lead, could have been an overachieving accomplishment.
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Originally Posted by oh the horror
Perception is everything. Saying Dirk is better than KG seems criminal.
This is true, but certainly not criminal to put him over the all-time ranking IMO.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
) show that you are. You want to win this "debate" instead of reading and actually comprehending what's going on.
