Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

[2010splash]

Originally Posted by Hank

The people who hate Lebron will never admit to that. Put kobe on those teams instead of lebron and they miss the playoffs every year

Word. These fools are comparing LeBron's number of championships to Magic/Bird/Kareem as if they all had the same quality of teammates.

Shiet, winning 66 games and 61 games with those scrub Cavs teams (who subsequently became the second worst team in the league the year LeBron left) is more impressive than winning it all with a stacked team full of HOFers.

And people wanna hold 2007 Finals against him. LOL, what player could ever lead a scrub team with Mo Williams, Z, Varejao, Damon Jones and all that to more than a second round appearance, never mind the FINALS?

[FKAri]

Originally Posted by 2010splash

I rank LeBron over everyone except Jordan. Spare me the "Kareem's got the resume" stuff... if LeBron played in the 70s dude would have averaged a triple double better than Oscar.

It all makes sense now...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho....php?p=8198704

[305Baller]

I don't know if LeBron has better court-vision than Bird. I just haven't seen enough evidence.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Originally Posted by 2010splash

Better than Bird at literally everything besides FT shooting. Way faster, stronger, more athletic, better passer, better scorer, better rebounder, way better defender, and much more efficient.

Only lagging in number of titles. This guy will be the second greatest player ever when all is said and done (if he isn't already).

Just no


Bird is a better

shooter (3pt, mid range, close range, FT)
post player
passer
rebounder
team defender
off-ball player
with the off-hand
clutch player
leader
as far as scoring both have a case, can see either way

So just chill little kid and don't get caught too much in the spur of the moment.

[Just2McFly]

Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7

About the ranking over Kareem/Magic/Bird now ?

When he said, anyone other than Jordan....that's too much.

I was with him when he was saying that Lebron is a better player than Bird.

[COnDEMnED]

Originally Posted by 2010splash

I rank LeBron over everyone except Jordan. Spare me the "Kareem's got the resume" stuff... if LeBron played in the 70s dude would have averaged a triple double better than Oscar.

Doesnt that "resume stuff" make a huge contribution to how players are ranked? If not, Wilts 100 point game > Lebrons Career if were going by single game stats and not "resume"... You see how rediculous it sounds when you put it in perspective?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Originally Posted by 2010splash

Word. These fools are comparing LeBron's number of championships to Magic/Bird/Kareem as if they all had the same quality of teammates.

And fools like yourself never mention the competition. Just by naming Bird and Magic with so many great teammates, when they went against each other, then saying that shows your ignorance.

80s basketball > 00s basketball, as far as competition, teams, players, on average
Not to mention 80s SFs > 00s SFs

^^ that's esily and clearly

[SHAQisGOAT]

Originally Posted by 2010splash

LeBron's got what, five different 30+ PER seasons? Bird's career high is like 25.0 lmao.

It's time we stop understating LeBron's greatness just because he isn't retired. If we're starting a draft including anyone in history, besides Jordan there ain't NOBODY I take over LeBron. Nobody.

PER

[Just2McFly]

00's PG/SG/PF's are greater/on par tho

[ThaRegul8r]

Originally Posted by 2010splash

Yeah okay, and those rebound numbers aren't adjusted for the much higher pace/way more possessions in Bird's days.

That's what rebound rate is for, which controls for pace. 15% of available rebounds is 15% of available rebounds, whether playing at a fast pace or slow.

LeBron's grabbed 10.7% of available rebounds for his career, with a career high of 13.0% in 2012-13, when he grabbed a career-high 8.3 per game.

Bird grabbed 14.5% of available rebounds for his career, and exceeded 13.0% of available rebounds nine times in his career.

Those are the cold, hard facts minus agenda, fanboyism or stannery. Bird was the better rebounder and there is absolutely zero way to spin that truth into anything other than what it is.

[Whoah10115]

Originally Posted by 2010splash

Someone tell me something LeBron ISN'T elite at besides overrated FT shooting?

Why? You're just going to say we're wrong.


I mean, FT shooting...like Bron is a better shooter than Bird outside of that?

[gin17]

I can't imagine Lebron outplaying Bird in any game... even if we're talking about Bird with a bad back. Bird has got the level of IQ, ferociousness, competitiveness, clutchness that Lebron never had.

Lebron might be the better physical specimen but let's not be ignorant of the fact that Bird has dealt with stronger opponents, faster opponents, more cerebral opponents, better skilled post-up opponents, and have more often that not equaled or bested the opponent. Bird most of the time was the inferior physically, however he still held his ground or was even better. That's how skilled and cerebral Bird was. He got the most out of his talents that a normal person of same or better physical endownment can just dream to have.

In addition, Bird makes his teammates better. I don't think Lebron has made his teammates better. Quite the opposite, Wade and others' production has diminished after Lebron teamed up with them. Lebron is that much of an on-ball/ball hog person. That was not the case for Bird, but still Bird got his absurd production almost every game while making his teammates better.

Again, I am not saying that Bird is clearly better, but I am saying that saying that Lebron is clearcut better is just ignorant and naive. However, right now Bird is still the greatest SF, that I know for sure. We'll see if Lebron can take that title of "greatest", but that would be a very difficult road. Not impossible though.

[Lebron23]

Originally Posted by Kurosawa0

I moved him past Dr. J already, but Bird is still a bit higher. I definitely think LeBron surpasses him. Unless he has major injury trouble, LeBron might only be at the half way point of his career. With his physical gifts and modern medicine, LeBron might very well play 18-20 years.

I've said it a bunch of times... LeBron is probably going to finish his career with more points, assists and rebounds than any player in NBA history. Others will have higher totals in one category or another, but I really see LeBron having higher totals in all three than any other player ever.

Say he ends up with 30,000 points, 8,000 assists and 8,000 rebounds... No one has ever done that. If LeBron gets there with 3 or so rings and 3 or so MVPs, we're talking about top 5 all-time and yes, better than Bird.

This


Bird is a 3x regular season MVP, and 2x Finals MVP in 13 years
LBJ is currently a 3x MVP and 1x Finals MVP. in 9 years. ( soon to be a 4x MVP, and probably a 2x Finals MVP. )

LeBron will have more All NBA First teams, and all defensive team selections than Bird at the end of his career.

[Legends66NBA7]

Originally Posted by Just2McFly

When he said, anyone other than Jordan....that's too much.

It might be irrational, but then again I've seen people rank LeBron Top 2-5 after his first ring, so...

[SHAQisGOAT]

Originally Posted by 2010splash

LeBron would put up 35/12/8 in the 80s. Would shoot close to 60%.

Bird was at 14.5 TRB% for his career, playing with the likes of Parish and McHale, 16.0 in his best year. Lebron is at 10.7 for his career, this season 13.0 playing on a really bad rebounding team.

^^Guess you don't even know what that means, then bring stuff like PER up.

He averaged almost the same APG as Lebron, without handling the ball remotely close to Lebron, and never playing PG like Lebron does a lot, while playing with some great passers.

60 FG%, with the lane much more crowded, and without a reliable jump-shot and midrange game? Doubt it