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Old 05-05-2013, 07:03 PM   #406
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by 2010splash
Worse rebounder and passer for sure. Easier to shut down because of his poor mobility and much less diverse in the styles of play he can thrive in. Bird needs to play in a half court setting because his poor athleticism hurts the team in an uptempo style. LeBron can play any style - unstoppable in transition, can post up, can shoot from anywhere, much better slasher and finisher around the rim than Bird, etc.

Do you believe that LeBron is the best ever?
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:04 PM   #407
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Old 05-05-2013, 07:04 PM   #408
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by 2010splash
Larry Bird - slow, weak, unathletic, worse than LeBron at literally everything except maybe shooting, much worse on defense, never put up close to a 30 PER (LeBron does so every year), he's not even close.


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Old 05-05-2013, 07:10 PM   #409
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010splash
How so? It's the truth. Duncan won one title with an average supporting cast in 2003, but it was still much better than the trash LeBron played with in Cleveland. Doesn't mean LeBron can't win it all with a mediocre supporting cast. He's only had two options in his career - try with a trash supporting cast (Cavs) and try with an elite supporting cast (Heat). What Duncan did in 2003 is impressive but does not make him better than LeBron. In none of his playoff runs was he as dominant as 2009 LeBron or 2012 LeBron. Besides 2003, Duncan has had straight loaded teams and a much better coach than anyone LeBron's had.

LeBron basically passes Duncan after this year with another ring. Then it basically becomes LeBron's 4 MVP's and 2 titles (back to back, which Duncan never did) versus Duncan's two more rings and worse stats/far inferior offensive impact.

Duncan never came close to shooting 56.5 FG% despite being a 7 footer and living in the paint. Nor was he particularly efficient during his title runs (a pedestrian 54.1 TS% in 1999 and .540 TS% in 2005). Sure he was a great player, but offensively not even close to LeBron. He's somewhere around 7-9 all-time around where Olajuwon and Kobe are. LeBron is basically on his way to #2 all-time with no argument.


Actually, Lebron's teams in 09 and 10 were as good or better than Duncan's in 03.

And...actually, Lebron choked his ass off in 11.

You can't have it both ways. You can't use things like titles and successes to rank players and then conveniently sweep the fact that Lebron lost the 11 finals, in the heart of his prime, with Bosh and Wade and a solid team around him against one of the weakest (in terms of talent) title teams in NBA history.

So no, it's not the "truth"...there is no evidence at all to suggest Duncan wouldn't have easily won in 2011 with the kind of help Lebron had. Hell, look what Duncan is doing now at his age.

Lebron has a long long long way to go to match a guy like Duncan and his longevity and success.

Duncan has now led his team to what...14 straight 50 win seasons. Never been done before. 4 titles without an all nba teammate...never been done before.

So please don't come on here and pretend like Lebron is clearly better than Duncan or Kobe if he wins a title this year. Especially given how stacked his team is and the fact that his main competition lost their 2nd best player.

Do you Lebron stans just expect everyone to ignore the 11 finals? The 10 collapse against the Celtics? Those are black marks that aren't just going away with 1 title on a historically stacked team...sorry.

Lebron needs to win 3 titles before I move him ahead of Duncan. And this isn't a case of ring count. It's about the opportunities Lebron has had. This will be his 3rd year in a row with the best team...and that is likely to continue for at least 2 more years. So I need to see 3 titles in 5 years in order to put him even with ahead of Duncan.

And I'll tell you this. If the Spurs beat the Heat in the finals this year...Lebron will never catch Duncan. So again. calm yourself down and let it play out.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:11 PM   #410
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by Doctor Rivers
Do you believe that LeBron is the best ever?
Second best ever after Jordan. At least in terms of individual impact/dominance.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #411
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Do you Lebron stans just expect everyone to ignore the 11 finals? The 10 collapse against the Celtics? Those are black marks that aren't just going away with 1 title on a historically stacked team...sorry.
Yes they do expect everyone to ignore those years and blame the 10 cast and 11 Wade.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #412
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010splash
Second best ever after Jordan. At least in terms of individual impact/dominance.

Lebron has not done enough yet. Sorry.

The 2nd best player ever does not get outplayed by Jason Terry in the biggest series of his life...on a historically stacked team...in the heart of his prime.

Lebron has a long way to go in order to have everyone overlook that giant pile of shit staining his legacy.

If Lebron wins fmvp and another title this year. He will vault into that Kobe / Hakeem range as a player an no higher.

He has too much left to prove.

It would be one thing if he was awful in the finals early on in his career...oh wait, that happened in 07 when Duncan/Spurs swept him...LOL...but getting roasted like that in the heart of your prime with the most help in the league...playing a team with far less talent and without homecourt? Nah...can't just ignore that when ranking Lebron historically at this point.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:17 PM   #413
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

I love reading DMavs41 posts murdering all the stans. I still remember the Kobestan crusade. Brings a tear to my eye. :')
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:24 PM   #414
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by Bandito
Yes they do expect everyone to ignore those years and blame the 10 cast and 11 Wade.

you can't ignore '11. He should have put them over the line and he didn't. It's as simple as that. '10 is more excusable cause his team really was bad. Average NBA PER is 15, 2 players on that team had over 15 other than lebron, and they had 16 and 17. PER's not a perfect stat, but it pretty clearly demonstrates that the '10 cavs were abject other than lebron. But yeah you can't give him a pass for '11 at all.

IMHO Duncan is often criminally underrated. Anyone who puts him below kobe is crazy.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:27 PM   #415
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by Unbiased_one
you can't ignore '11. He should have put them over the line and he didn't. It's as simple as that. '10 is more excusable cause his team really was bad. Average NBA PER is 15, 2 players on that team had over 15 other than lebron, and they had 16 and 17. PER's not a perfect stat, but it pretty clearly demonstrates that the '10 cavs were abject other than lebron. But yeah you can't give him a pass for '11 at all.

IMHO Duncan is often criminally underrated. Anyone who puts him below kobe is crazy.
In 10 Lebron faked a shoulder injury in order to escape blame but anyone that saw the game could see he flat out quit (even after he promised a championship tot he Cavs). He tried to do that in 11 too but Riley said **** no, live with the consequences b1tch.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:33 PM   #416
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by Bandito
In 10 Lebron faked a shoulder injury in order to escape blame but anyone that saw the game could see he flat out quit (even after he promised a championship tot he Cavs). He tried to do that in 11 too but Riley said **** no, live with the consequences b1tch.

This is ultra-subjective and source-less so I'm just going to ignore it. The '10 cavs were abject, and they never stood a chance of beating the celtics with or without lebron.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:38 PM   #417
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by Unbiased_one
This is ultra-subjective and source-less so I'm just going to ignore it. The '10 cavs were abject, and they never stood a chance of beating the celtics with or without lebron.

I picked the Celtics before that series...and very very very very few people did as well.

But to say they had no chance is just a joke. They were tied 2-2 with homecourt. If Lebron had played great...they could have won.

I certainly don't hold that series against Lebron the way some people do...and the Celtics definitely were better, but please don't act like they had no chance.

Would you say the same thing about 08? The Cavs were worse in 08..and Lebron was worse in 08...the Celtics were better in 08...and the Celtics had homecourt. Yet somehow the Cavs forced a game 7 and then came within 2 minutes of winning that series.

These series are far more fragile than people give them credit for. Saying things like "no chance" is absurd.

But things like that are easy to overlook and aren't that big of a deal. It's the 11 collapse that is the big problem for Lebron's legacy...as it should be.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:40 PM   #418
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I picked the Celtics before that series...and very very very very few people did as well.

But to say they had no chance is just a joke. They were tied 2-2 with homecourt. If Lebron had played great...they could have won.

I certainly don't hold that series against Lebron the way some people do...and the Celtics definitely were better, but please don't act like they had no chance.

Would you say the same thing about 08? The Cavs were worse in 08..and Lebron was worse in 08...the Celtics were better in 08...and the Celtics had homecourt. Yet somehow the Cavs forced a game 7 and then came within 2 minutes of winning that series.

These series are far more fragile than people give them credit for. Saying things like "no chance" is absurd.

But things like that are easy to overlook and aren't that big of a deal. It's the 11 collapse that is the big problem for Lebron's legacy...as it should be.
Please stop trying to pretend you're unbiased.

Just admit you hate LeBron and move on, you'll feel a lot better
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:40 PM   #419
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41

These series are far more fragile than people give them credit for. Saying things like "no chance" is absurd.

But things like that are easy to overlook and aren't that big of a deal. It's the 11 collapse that is the big problem for Lebron's legacy...as it should be.

Well yes, but if stans are going to act like the world is black and white, then so am I...it's the only way to get through.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:44 PM   #420
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by Unbiased_one
This is ultra-subjective and source-less so I'm just going to ignore it. The '10 cavs were abject, and they never stood a chance of beating the celtics with or without lebron.
That is subjective too. It is source-less but that is because is impossible to prove unless someone rats him out or he confesses. I am going from what I saw. After that year I stopped being a fan of his and 11 just destroyed any semblance of respect I had for him as a player.

Quote:
Well yes, but if stans are going to act like the world is black and white, then so am I...it's the only way to get through.
But you are a stan!?

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