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Old 05-05-2013, 12:51 PM   #376
Ne 1
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen_wun
No other player in the history of the NBA could have carried 2007 cleveland to the finals. No other.

Listen, even the 60+ win teams were crap sans LeBron. That cast has done nothing in this league since he left. Some of them are out of league, i applaud Mo for getting decent numbers on the Jazz though.

2006 Wizards (42-40)
2007 Wizards (42-40)
2007 Nets (41-41)
2007 Pistons (53-29)
2008 Wizards (43-39)
2009 Pistons (39-43)
2009 Hawks (47-35)
2010 Bulls (41-41)


There isn't an all star in this league incapable of duplicating Lebron's "success" with the Cavs. Those teams dont even make the playoffs in the West.

Any superstar in league history when paired with a top defensive, top rebounding and top three point shooting supporting cast is capable of duplicating what Lebron accomplished given the competition with the Cavs. People with agendas love to make his teammates look worse than they are just to prop up LeBron. The team, especially in 2010 perfectly complimented his talents or any superstar wing for that matter.

Also, who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. They would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:02 PM   #377
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

No other player could have taken the 2007 Cavs to the Finals while beating a far superior and more talented Pistons team that ruled the East forever.

2007 Cavs minus LeBron:

Larry Hughes
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Drew Gooden
Sasha Pavlovic
Donyell Marshall
Andy Varejao
Damon Jones
Boobie Gibson
Eric Snow

Head coach: Mike Brown

Awful team. By far the worst team to ever make the Finals. They'd win maybe 20 games without LeBron.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:35 PM   #378
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by clutchinho
Lebrons a great player. But you stan's makiNg him out to be like Jordan like the decision never happened.


Bonafide ring chaser. First MVP to ring chase in his prime. That'll always be a part of his legacy
That's true
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:43 PM   #379
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010splash
LeBron's got what, five different 30+ PER seasons? Bird's career high is like 25.0 lmao.

It's time we stop understating LeBron's greatness just because he isn't retired. If we're starting a draft including anyone in history, besides Jordan there ain't NOBODY I take over LeBron. Nobody.

You won't even consider Wilt, Shaq or KAJ?
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:51 PM   #380
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgan3
You won't even consider Wilt, Shaq or KAJ?
Wilt's entire career = 4 MVP's and 2 titles. LeBron at age 28 = 4 MVP's and 2 titles. I don't see how Wilt is untouchable. Makes no sense.

Kareem = 4 titles as Robin to Magic (Batman). People give LeBron flack for teaming up with Wade, yet Kareem was averaging numbers like 17/7 and 20/8 while riding Magic's coattails to many titles. Hell will freeze over before LeBron ever ride's anyone's coattails like that. Just go look at the stats LeBron puts up and compare them to mid-late 80's Kareem (when he did the majority of his winning). It's embarrassing to even compare the two really.

Shaq = great peak, but only 1 MVP. How can a guy with 4 MVPs not catch a guy who only won 1 MVP? Especially considering how many more titles he has a chance to win?

Jordan is really the only perfect player.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:56 PM   #381
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crafty
How do you know Lebron didn't asked for elite players?

You can't just "ask" for elite players and get them! He was sitting on the fence the whole time he was with the Cavs, no star would want to team up with him knowing he could leave as a free agent.

It's telling that it was reported that he recruited more players to the Heat immediately after he signed with them than during his entire career with Cleveland.

LeBron is a great talent, but he's not an alpha. I'd take Kobe (who I hate with a passion) and Duncan over him all day every day in terms of careers with a franchise over LeBron. Those guys want to win because they want to win, LeBron wants to win because he thinks that winning will look best on his resume.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:17 PM   #382
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Leon Smith
I'd take Kobe (who I hate with a passion) and Duncan over him all day every day in terms of careers with a franchise over LeBron.
God help us all.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:19 PM   #383
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010splash
God help us all.
Why? is not that big of a deal
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:20 PM   #384
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Pat Riley said LeBron is the best he's ever seen.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:21 PM   #385
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Leon Smith

LeBron is a great talent, but he's not an alpha. I'd take Kobe (who I hate with a passion) and Duncan over him all day every day in terms of careers with a franchise over LeBron. Those guys want to win because they want to win, LeBron wants to win because he thinks that winning will look best on his resume.


So the reason why someone wants to win is more important than actual impact and dominance on the basketball court on a path which leads to win in the end?
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:26 PM   #386
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandito
Why? is not that big of a deal
Yeah it is. LeBron is a much better and much more dominant player than Duncan or Kobe. If given equally talented supporting casts, LeBron would have more team success than either of those two 10 times out of 10.

Think about it. Individually, Duncan is comparably dominant to Garnett (though much more accomplished due to having a far better team in the prime of his career). LeBron is similar to Jordan in his dominance. Would you take Garnett over Jordan? Of course not.

And bringing up Kobe in this discussion is just ridiculous. Kobe with a bad supporting cast missed the playoffs and got bounced in the first round from 2005-2007. LeBron with a bad supporting cast went to the goddamn NBA Finals and won 66 and 61 games. Heck, Kobe had a team of Dwight/Nash/Pau this year and led his team to a 7th seed and first round ass whooping.

Taking Duncan over LeBron is silly, though not as silly as even bringing up Kobe in the same breath as LeBron when it comes to building a team from scratch.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:36 PM   #387
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBJ 23
So the reason why someone wants to win is more important than actual impact and dominance on the basketball court on a path which leads to win in the end?

Yes.

Great players want to win because winning is in their DNA.

LeBron wants to win because he thinks that winning should be part of his resume.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:37 PM   #388
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010splash
Yeah it is. LeBron is a much better and much more dominant player than Duncan or Kobe. If given equally talented supporting casts, LeBron would have more team success than either of those two 10 times out of 10.

Think about it. Individually, Duncan is comparably dominant to Garnett (though much more accomplished due to having a far better team in the prime of his career). LeBron is similar to Jordan in his dominance. Would you take Garnett over Jordan? Of course not.

And bringing up Kobe in this discussion is just ridiculous. Kobe with a bad supporting cast missed the playoffs and got bounced in the first round from 2005-2007. LeBron with a bad supporting cast went to the goddamn NBA Finals and won 66 and 61 games. Heck, Kobe had a team of Dwight/Nash/Pau this year and led his team to a 7th seed and first round ass whooping.

Taking Duncan over LeBron is silly, though not as silly as even bringing up Kobe in the same breath as LeBron when it comes to building a team from scratch.

You need to tap the brakes a bit on the whole much better and more dominant thing than Kobe...but especially Duncan.

Duncan has won the most with the least help in NBA history. He's one of the best two way players of all time. As good as Lebron is on defense...Duncan's impact easily trumps Lebron's...and that is saying something since Lebron is one of the best defenders at his position ever.

Duncan is so damn historically under-rated it's a joke. He's won 4 titles. He won a title in 03 with next to nothing historically...the idea that Duncan would have ever lost in the heart of his prime with Bosh and Wade to the 11 Mavericks is the most laughable thing anyone could ever say.

So tap the brakes a bit...Lebron has a lot of work to do in order to surpass guys like Duncan on the all time list.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:40 PM   #389
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010splash
Yeah it is. LeBron is a much better and much more dominant player than Duncan or Kobe. If given equally talented supporting casts, LeBron would have more team success than either of those two 10 times out of 10.

Think about it. Individually, Duncan is comparably dominant to Garnett (though much more accomplished due to having a far better team in the prime of his career). LeBron is similar to Jordan in his dominance. Would you take Garnett over Jordan? Of course not.

And bringing up Kobe in this discussion is just ridiculous. Kobe with a bad supporting cast missed the playoffs and got bounced in the first round from 2005-2007. LeBron with a bad supporting cast went to the goddamn NBA Finals and won 66 and 61 games. Heck, Kobe had a team of Dwight/Nash/Pau this year and led his team to a 7th seed and first round ass whooping.

Taking Duncan over LeBron is silly, though not as silly as even bringing up Kobe in the same breath as LeBron when it comes to building a team from scratch.
I did not read after the second sentence because I am pretty sure it's ridiculous. If he doesn't share your opinion doesn't mean the world has to end. If he doesn't think Lebron is the best after reading your opinion and giving his reasons what are you going to do? Commit suicide? Who cares!?
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:43 PM   #390
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Rivers
Pat Riley said LeBron is the best he's ever seen.


Really? It wouldn't happen to be because Bron's playing for him, right?

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