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Old 02-05-2013, 04:44 AM   #166
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Legend-24
Using ISH logic, Garnett doesn't have any FMVP's so therefore he doesn't really have a ring, on the other hand Dirk does have 1 FMVP, which means Dirk > KG.
Eh. KG was the FMVP of that series.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:01 AM   #167
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Admittedly, I haven't seen much of Bird's play as I grew up after his time had passed, but it's hard to imagine that there could've been a better SF than what we're seeing LeBron do now.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:10 AM   #168
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

He is definitely the better player.However that said lebron has at least 2 more seasons of catching up to do.If he wins next two FMVP i would call him the greatest SF ever.Bird won 2 FMVP and 3 rings.3FMVP coupled with his 3MVPs should do it
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:42 AM   #169
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by arifgokcen
He is definitely the better player.However that said lebron has at least 2 more seasons of catching up to do.If he wins next two FMVP i would call him the greatest SF ever.Bird won 2 FMVP and 3 rings.3FMVP coupled with his 3MVPs should do it

Agree with this. 3 is gonna be Lebron's magic number of rings that boosts his career over many greats. IMO, with 2 total, he actually doesn't move in the rankings. Still #11 for me. However with 3 (if he absolutely dominates) he suddenly is top5. Only Jordan, Russell, and Kareem, would have better career resumes IMO.

If he gets 3 in a non-dominant fashion, I feel like you could still make a case for anyone in the current top10 against Bron...and maybe he would STILL be stuck at 11. Top 10 is tough unless you have transcendent games + resume!
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:47 AM   #170
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Funny how Lebron fans never bring the age argument when they compare him to Bird, like they almost always do in Jordan's case. Wonder why...
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:05 AM   #171
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Averaging 26/10/3/1 on top efficiency is certainly not average.

Off course, Garnett's defense gives him the advantage as well, but Dirk's 6 point increase ppg difference and 4th quarter ability, more than gives him the edge here.

Nowitzki was able to get his team farther in the playoffs than Garnett did. Even got by the T-Wolves in 2002. I realize Garnett's teams were worse, but Nowitzki also had to be a Top player for those Mavs teams to make it work.

For sure, man, and you definitely brought it. I just don't think there's a huge gap between them. I've seen people disregard and laugh at the notion of Dirk over KG numerous times, but their career paths are neck and neck, IMO.

For the post.

---

Just to clarify I said Dirk's playoff numbers were average for a star. Any guy that is the leader of a team and averages 20/10 in the playoffs is great...

---

The value of defense vs. offense debate isn't really going to get solved. KG's playoff scoring dipped in Boston though because he focused on defense more. He was capable of averaging 25 in the playoffs if he was the focal point.

---

In the playoffs from 00-01 to 03-04 KG put up:

24.4 ppg / 14.9 reb / 5 ast / 1.4 stl / 2 blk / 3.4 to
on 47.3% / 30% / 75.6%

In those series KG played 43.3 minutes per game, against the following front lines (with Nesterovic or 36 year old Earvin Johnson as his front court partner):

Spurs - Duncan, Robinson,
Mavs - Shawn Bradley, Dirk, Juwon Howard, Raef LaFrentz,
Lakers - Mark Madsen, Shaq,
Nuggets - Birdman, Camby, Nene,
Kings - Brad Miller, CWebb, Vlade,
Lakers - Karl Malone, Shaq, and Horace Grant

He was running himself ragged, and took the Shaq/Kobe Lakers to 6 games twice.

---

Honestly looking at the playoff history, they lost to teams they should've lost to. Lakers twice, Spurs twice, Jailblazers and the Mavs. Teams that had multiple talented bigs, that KG couldn't contain by himself.

I mean that Mavs team had Finley, Nash, Van Exel and Dirků KG had Chauncey Billups.

---

I do think it's interesting that they've played within 3 playoff games of each other, both won a finals series, both lost one, and both got bounced early a bunch of times.

They're tough to compare. It really depends what style of play you like if you were going to start a team. I side with KG slightly, but I love Dirk.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:51 AM   #172
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010splash
Better than Bird at literally everything besides FT shooting. Way faster, stronger, more athletic, better passer, better scorer, better rebounder, way better defender, and much more efficient.

Only lagging in number of titles. This guy will be the second greatest player ever when all is said and done (if he isn't already).

He's a way worse shooter in EVERY respect (not just FT shooting), way worse off the ball player, way worse post player, worse passer, and a worse rebounder. He's also not as good a scorer as Bird.

Please, just stop it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:57 AM   #173
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovach
Funny how Lebron fans never bring the age argument when they compare him to Bird, like they almost always do in Jordan's case. Wonder why...
Dude why would they bring that argument.Bird won his first ring not FMVP at 25.

Bird was not FMVP for his first ring.
Then at 28-30 he won FMVP

Thats not that far off lebron's career.So no age argument to be made here considering lebron is ahead of bird in that department.Bird won his first MVP and FMVP at age 28.
Lebron had 1FMVP and 3 MVP at age 27.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:48 AM   #174
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010splash
Better than Bird at literally everything besides FT shooting. Way faster, stronger, more athletic, better passer, better scorer, better rebounder, way better defender, and much more efficient.

Only lagging in number of titles. This guy will be the second greatest player ever when all is said and done (if he isn't already).

how about shooting from the rest of the floor? It dosen't matter how cool and athletic a bucket looks it's just 2 points.

Bird>Bron
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:57 AM   #175
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by arifgokcen
Dude why would they bring that argument.Bird won his first ring not FMVP at 25.

Bird was not FMVP for his first ring.
Then at 28-30 he won FMVP

Thats not that far off lebron's career.So no age argument to be made here considering lebron is ahead of bird in that department.Bird won his first MVP and FMVP at age 28.
Lebron had 1FMVP and 3 MVP at age 27.


Bird was competing with KAJ, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, and Moses Malone for MVPs. Who was Lebron competing with? Context is important.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:58 AM   #176
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by arifgokcen
Dude why would they bring that argument.Bird won his first ring not FMVP at 25.

Bird was not FMVP for his first ring.
Then at 28-30 he won FMVP

Thats not that far off lebron's career.So no age argument to be made here considering lebron is ahead of bird in that department.Bird won his first MVP and FMVP at age 28.
Lebron had 1FMVP and 3 MVP at age 27.
I thought James was older, my bad. He was already a 6 year vet with 1 MVP at the age Bird was only a sophomore. A pretty neat advantage to have.

Last edited by Kovach : 02-05-2013 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:58 AM   #177
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

bird was a much more skilled player, but didnt care about his stats. any top 20 player of all time can look better then they are when their mission is to get best stats before wins. skills>>>>>stats
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:06 AM   #178
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Bird was competing with KAJ, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, and Moses Malone for MVPs. Who was Lebron competing with? Context is important.
Dude i dont wanna come as a bird hater but are you delusional.

MJ wasnt gonna win MVP until his team got a respectable record and he was in college when bird started winning.

Kareem was 36 by the time bird started winning mvp's .

Only two players rivaled him.Magic and moses malone.Lebron won his first and second mvp's against prime wade(absolute domination if anyone remembers not this wade). almost prime kobe and howard.

This is as good company as any among MVP candidates.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovach
I thought James was older, my bad. He was already a 6 year vet with 1 MVP at the age Bird was only a sophomore. A pretty neat advantage to have.

Dude decide on your argument then talk.Dont come and talk to me like a politician.You said age and i am talking age.Get your argument right or noone will take you seriously
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:06 AM   #179
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doranku
Admittedly, I haven't seen much of Bird's play as I grew up after his time had passed, but it's hard to imagine that there could've been a better SF than what we're seeing LeBron do now.

Only a short video, but it gives you a decent impression of his style of play and mind set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vHEWOqdyTg
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:13 AM   #180
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

Quote:
Originally Posted by arifgokcen
Dude i dont wanna come as a bird hater but are you delusional.

MJ wasnt gonna win MVP until his team got a respectable record and he was in college when bird started winning.

Kareem was 36 by the time bird started winning mvp's .

Only two players rivaled him.Magic and moses malone.Lebron won his first and second mvp's against prime wade(absolute domination if anyone remembers not this wade). almost prime kobe and howard.

This is as good company as any among MVP candidates.




Dude decide on your argument then talk.Dont come and talk to me like a politician.You said age and i am talking age.Get your argument right or noone will take you seriously


Bird finished second to MJ in 1988. Lebron finished third to Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard.

Last edited by Sarcastic : 02-05-2013 at 09:31 AM.
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