Really hard to rank 15-20 but this is what I think. Check Dirk's playoff numbers and his clutch plays in the Playoffs, I can't put guys like Malone and D-Rob ahead of him because they have not had playoffs like Dirk had.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
That means he is ranked in the top 6-7 then...He's close but not there yet. Another MVP/title this year and he is in the convo for sure. When it's all said and done he will be considered a top 5 player of all time I reckon.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
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Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
As a better playoff performer (which I look into highly) and an amazing playoff run to boot, countless winning seasons as the best player, a Finals MVP, redefining his position, etc...
And this might be opinionated, but bringing a title to a franchise that didn't have one to begin with... Dirk's ring is clearly more impressive over Garnett's ring from the Celtics, which was a much deeper team and already had countless history behind it over Dallas.
- Dirk had one Godly playoff run, the rest were statistically average for a great player and underwhelming as a team.
- KG and Dirk put up similar playoff numbers, like 26/10/2/1/1 for Dirk and 20/11/3/1/1 for KG.
- KG was the best player and had a .500 or better record 8/12 seasons in Minny (his first 2 and last 2 were under .500). Dirk has a .500 or better record in 12/15 seasons (his first two and this year are below .500). KG also had worse teams than Dirk for the majority of their careers.
- KG revolutionized the PF spot at least as much as Dirk.
- KG should've won either the MVP or FMVP (or both) in 2008. He had the best playoff run of any Celtic, and was the best player, on the best team, with the biggest W-L turnaround in league history.
- Dallas' team was as deep as the Celtics team. The C's had 3 really good players and then a drop off for role players. The Mavs had Dirk and then a full roster of good role players.
- Winning a ring for a ringless franchise means the same as winning one for a team that's won before... Plus the Celtics hadn't won a championship in over 20 years at that point.
- Dirk's offense in his title run was as important to his team as KG's defense in 2008.
- (You didn't bring this up but someone will) KG didn't request a trade, he was traded after initially refusing. He didn't ring chase.
- KG is arguably the most versatile big of all time. He is the only player in history to have at least:
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
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Originally Posted by plowking
What has Garnett done to be ranked top 15 on some lists?
hmmm let me think...
NBA champion: 2008
Olympic gold medal: 2000
NBA Most Valuable Player: 2004
NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 2008
NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2003
15-time NBA All-Star: 1997—2011, 2013
Selected to 14 consecutive All-Star teams
9-time All-NBA selection:
First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2008
Second Team: 2001, 2002, 2005
Third Team: 1999, 2007
12-time All-Defensive:
First Team: 2000—2005, 2008—2009, 2011
Second Team: 2006-2007, 2012
And he has CAREER averages of 19/11/4 on 50%. With this best statistical season being 24/14/5 on 50%, while also being a defensive anchor, leading his team in both Steals and Blocks.
Really hard to rank 15-20 but this is what I think. Check Dirk's playoff numbers and his clutch plays in the Playoffs, I can't put guys like Malone and D-Rob ahead of him because they have not had playoffs like Dirk had.
LeBron is the 11th greatest player of all time according to ISH. LeBron will surpass Kobe and Hakeem this year. Duncan should be rank higher than Kobe.
TD is a 2x MVP,3x Finals MVP, and 4x NBA Champion as the best player and the leader of the Spurs.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
Using ISH logic, Garnett doesn't have any FMVP's so therefore he doesn't really have a ring, on the other hand Dirk does have 1 FMVP, which means Dirk > KG.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
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Originally Posted by ProfessorMurder
- Dirk had one Godly playoff run, the rest were statistically average for a great player and underwhelming as a team.
Averaging 26/10/3/1 on top efficiency is certainly not average. And for a look at the whole playoff career:
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- KG and Dirk put up similar playoff numbers, like 26/10/2/1/1 for Dirk and 20/11/3/1/1 for KG.
Off course, Garnett's defense gives him the advantage as well, but Dirk's 6 point increase ppg difference and 4th quarter ability, more than gives him the edge here.
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- KG was the best player and had a .500 or better record 8/12 seasons in Minny (his first 2 and last 2 were under .500). Dirk has a .500 or better record in 12/15 seasons (his first two and this year are below .500). KG also had worse teams than Dirk for the majority of their careers.
Nowitzki was able to get his team farther in the playoffs than Garnett did. Even got by the T-Wolves in 2002. I realize Garnett's teams were worse, but Nowitzki also had to be a Top player for those Mavs teams to make it work.
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- KG revolutionized the PF spot at least as much as Dirk.
I should have been more specific, I meant like... nobody has ever seen a player at Nowitzki's position who can shoot, score, rebound, etc... You are right that Garnett has revolutionized the position with his all-around ability as well.
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- KG should've won either the MVP or FMVP (or both) in 2008. He had the best playoff run of any Celtic, and was the best player, on the best team, with the biggest W-L turnaround in league history.
I disagree with the MVP, but I do agree with Finals MVP.
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- Dallas' team was as deep as the Celtics team. The C's had 3 really good players and then a drop off for role players. The Mavs had Dirk and then a full roster of good role players.
Disagree here. Even if Caron Butler is healthy for that playoff run, I just think the overall defense and depth of the Celtics was better. Even one can say their offense is much better.
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- Winning a ring for a ringless franchise means the same as winning one for a team that's won before... Plus the Celtics hadn't won a championship in over 20 years at that point.
Actually, that's a very good point.
But I guess it's more special, IMO.
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- Dirk's offense in his title run was as important to his team as KG's defense in 2008.
No disagreement here.
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- (You didn't bring this up but someone will) KG didn't request a trade, he was traded after initially refusing. He didn't ring chase.
And for good reason I didn't bring that up, because I just wouldn't view Garnett at that point in time a ring chaser. He wasn't on his last legs trying to help a team full of stars on the defensive end. This was a player coming off 4 straight rebounding titles and consecutive 20/10 seasons and top level defense.
But I see your point.
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- KG is arguably the most versatile big of all time. He is the only player in history to have at least:
Fantastic playing career. I would say Hakeem is probably the most versatile big, but you did say arguably.
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Whether you like Dirk or think he's better, an argument can be made for both guys.
For sure, man, and you definitely brought it. I just don't think there's a huge gap between them. I've seen people disregard and laugh at the notion of Dirk over KG numerous times, but their career paths are neck and neck, IMO.
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
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Originally Posted by plowking
Kevin Garnett is grossly overrated on this forum, while Dirk remains criminally underrated.
What has Garnett done to be ranked top 15 on some lists?
I honestly don't think either are overrated or underrated on this forum. There can be some ignorance about both, but I think they are both rated about right.
They are both Top 20-25 range to me.
One could make the case for Garnett being Top 15 (I don't see it, but he was ranked Top 16 this summer by ISH).
Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history
