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Old 02-07-2013, 05:29 PM   #61
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
What if I told you to reread what I wrote. Nowhere did I say that Eli won by himself.
What if I told you the thread title isn't "Eli vs. Romo" ?
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:53 PM   #62
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
I saw him on the field making more tackles than everyone else...just because he isn't prime Lewis doesn't mean he was a weakness...I think he was still one of the better MLBs this season
If you saw him on the field doing more than everyone else then you were playing a video game because he's been one of the weaker parts of that defense this postseason.

It's amazing to me a cowboy fan, whose whole teams identity is about winning and only winning completely discounts the importance of winning. Cowboy QBs who don't win aren't lauded over, they are laughed at. Is Romo better than Aikman too? Since stats trump all. Aikman was not a stat whore like Romo. If a pass needed to be made, he made it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:29 PM   #63
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
If you saw him on the field doing more than everyone else then you were playing a video game because he's been one of the weaker parts of that defense this postseason.
okay I disagree completely, I think he was a big part of that D this season and post season...so that's where we are on that

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
It's amazing to me a cowboy fan, whose whole teams identity is about winning and only winning completely discounts the importance of winning. Cowboy QBs who don't win aren't lauded over, they are laughed at. Is Romo better than Aikman too? Since stats trump all. Aikman was not a stat whore like Romo. If a pass needed to be made, he made it.
guess what niko...STATS DO MEAN SOMETHING...Lewis had 51 tackles this post season because he was actually out there doing shit...

do they mean everything?...no...but I think they mean more than rings do in terms of who is better...is Eli better than Marino?

Aikman claims Romo is better than him, and you know what, if Tony went on to win a ring at any time in the future I bet most fans would say the same thing and act as though they knew he was playing at a high level the entire time...because all fans see is rings

If Tony played on that early 90s Dallas team maybe they wins 4 rings...maybe none...no way to know.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:12 PM   #64
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
What if I told you the thread title isn't "Eli vs. Romo" ?


What if I told you I never thought it was? What if I told you, you were the first person to reference Eli in the entire thread?
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:26 PM   #65
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
What if I told you I never thought it was? What if I told you, you were the first person to reference Eli in the entire thread?
what if I told you that when I did reference him it was in relation to the thread title?
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:04 AM   #66
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
okay I disagree completely, I think he was a big part of that D this season and post season...so that's where we are on that

He wasn't that big of a part. He was on his way to retiring and everything tends to get overblown when a player is about to retire.

Quote:
guess what niko...STATS DO MEAN SOMETHING...Lewis had 51 tackles this post season because he was actually out there doing shit...

Sigh...

Quote:
do they mean everything?...no...but I think they mean more than rings do in terms of who is better...is Eli better than Marino?

WTF do tackles, which isn't even an official stat FFS, have to do with QBs? Why in the hell was that your lead-in to this comment?
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:42 AM   #67
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Tkl - tackles. We have tackle data for all players who were active in 1994 or later. Prior to 1994, the tackle data is unofficial, inconsistently recorded from team to team, and incomplete in our database. Also, before 1994, some teams recorded assists while others didn't, so we have lumped tackles plus assists together in the tackles column for those years. From 1994 to 2000, tackles were not an official stat, but were recorded consistently and should be complete in our database. From 2001 to the present, tackles have been an official statistic.

they are listed on NFL.com...they are an official NFL stat


It came up because I was pointing out the great "TEAM" that Flacco had around him this year, including Lewis this post season, and others like yourself tried to act as though he wasn't a factor this year so naturally I dug into his stats which say otherwise...

you can say he sucked all you want to, but he was putting more people down than anyone else
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:47 AM   #68
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Bottom line is the Ravens were solid from top to bottom...there was no weakness on that team this post season...
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:50 PM   #69
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Flacco played great, made no major mistakes, and that was a huge factor. The reason people make so much of QB play is historically if you don't have great QB play, you don't win. And for you arguing tackles, etc., the QB touches the ball EVERY offensive play. So his impact is much greater than everyone else. If he throws it 30 times, how many more times is he impacting it than any one other single player? He clearly has the most impact. You talk about Ray Lewis and try to argue his impact, but when you talk abotu QB's you aggregate everyone else.

If we had a draft of all NFL players, the great QB's would go for the most part woudl be the first people picked, and the winning great QB's would go before the non winning guys. Eli would get picked before Romo. Flacco and Big Ben before him too. Why? Only because they are trusted more not to make big mistakes. LIterally the only reason. And the young guys who got picked early? Because we see the same traits.

You can debate all you want, but a great QB first and foremost is the thing you need in this league to be consistently talked about. Romo is the one thing that keeps the cowboys in the discussion.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:05 PM   #70
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

No, great QB isn't a must...look at 2000 Ravens...or Bucs SB

and we had an all time draft here in ISH...the first picks weren't all QBs at all
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #71
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

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If we had a draft of all NFL players, the great QB's would go for the most part woudl be the first people picked, and the winning great QB's would go before the non winning guys.
PHP Code:
ROUND 1

1. D
-Shark - Ray Lewis
2. Dasher
- Reggie White
3.
-primetime- Joe Montana
4. MarloStanfield
- Lawrence Taylor
5. RedBlackAttack
- Joe Greene
6. IlliniFan
- Dick Butkus
7. ruslan
- Deion Sanders
8. Dirtbag
- Anthony Munoz
9. Carbine
- Mel Blount
10. statman32
- Deacon Jones

ROUND 2

10. statman32
- Jim Brown (11)
9. Carbine - Bruce Smith (12)
8. Dirtbag - Mike Webster (13)
7. ruslan - Peyton Manning (14)
6. IlliniFan - Walter Payton (15)
5. RedBlackAttack - Jerry Rice (16)
4. MarloStanfield - Barry Sanders (17)
3. -Primetime- Randy Moss (18)
2. Dasher - Randy White (19)
1. D-Shark - Mike Singletary (20)

ROUND 3

1. D
-Shark - Ronnie Lott (21)
2. Dasher - Jack Tatum (22)
3. -primetime- Larry Allen (23)
4. MarloStanfield - Nnamdi Asomugha (24)
5. RedBlackAttack - Jack Lambert (25)
6. IlliniFan - Merlin Olson (26)
7. ruslan - Alan Page (27)
8. Dirtbag - Dan Marino (28)
9. Carbine - Bob Lilly (29)
10. statman32 - Dick Lane (30)

ROUND 4

10. statman32
- John Hannah (31)
9. Carbine - Champ Bailey (32)
8. Dirtbag - OJ Simpson (33)
7. ruslan- Don Hutson (34)
6. IlliniFan - Johnny Unitas (35)
5. RedBlackAttack - John Elway (36)
4. MarloStanfield - Jonathen Ogden (37)
3. -Primetime- Tony Gonzalez (38)
2. Dasher - Chuck Bednarik (39)
1. D-Shark - Kevin Greene (40)

ROUND 5

1. D
-Shark - Derrick Thomas (41)
2. Dasher - Ray Nitschke (42)
3. -primetime- Warren Sapp (43)
4. MarloStanfield - Rod Woodson (44)
5. RedBlackAttack - Eric Dickerson (45)
6. IlliniFan - Forrest Gregg (46)
7. ruslan - Michael Strahan (47)
8. Dirtbag - Gene Upshaw (48)
9. Carbine - Ed Reed (49)
10. statman32 - Gale Sayers (50)

ROUND 6

10. MarloStanfield
(from statman32) - Junior Seau (51)
9. Carbine - Tom Brady (52)
8. Dirtbag - Art Shell (53)
7. ruslan - Derrick Brooks (54)
6. IlliniFan - Gino Marchetti (55)
5. RedBlackAttack - Jackie Slater (56)
4. statman32 (from MarloStanfield) - Roosevelt Brown (57)
3. -primetime- Brian Urlacher (58)
2. Dasher - Randall McDaniel (59)
1. D-Shark - Darrell Green (60)

ROUND 7

1. D
-Shark - Emmitt Smith (61)
2. Dasher - Dan Dierdorf (62)
3. -primetime- Terrell Owens (63)
4. statman32 (from MarloStanfield) - Jack Ham (64)
5. RedBlackAttack - Howie Long (65)
6. IlliniFan - Kellen Winslow Sr. (66)
7. ruslan - Marvin Harrison (67)
8. Dirtbag - Antonio Gates (68)
9. Carbine - Troy Polamalu (69)
10. statman32 - Larry Wilson (70)

ROUND 8

10. statman32
- Willie Lanier (71)
9. Carbine - Ladainian Tomlinson (72)
8. Dirtbag - Shannon Sharpe (73) (to D-Shark)
7. ruslan - Brian Dawkins (74)
6. IlliniFan - Herb Adderley (75)
5. RedBlackAttack - Michael Irvin (76)
4. MarloStanfield - Steve Young (77)
3. -primetime- Marshall Faulk (78)
2. Dasher - Roger Staubach (79)
1. D-Shark - John Randle (80)

ROUND 9

1. D
-Shark - Willie Brown (81)
2. Dasher - Aeneas Williams (82)
3. -primetime- Will Shields (83)
4. MarloStanfield - Jerome Bettis (84)
5. RedBlackAttack - Julius Peppers (85)
6. IlliniFan - Cris Carter (86)
7. ruslan - Walter Jones (87)
8. Dirtbag - Earl Campbell (88)
9. Carbine - Demarcus Ware (89)
10. statman32 - Ken Houston (90)

ROUND 10

10. statman32
- Dwight Stephenson (91)
9. Carbine - Richard Dent (92)
8. Dirtbag - Tim Brown (93)
7. ruslan - Jason Taylor (94)
6. IlliniFan - Bruce Matthews (95)
5. RedBlackAttack - Steve Smith (96)
4. MarloStanfield - Willie Roaf (97)
3. -primetime- Orlando Pace (98)
2. Dasher - Dick Lebeau (99)
1. D-Shark - Ty Law (100)

ROUND 11

1. D
-Shark - Larry Fitzgerald (101)
2. Dasher - Charles Haley (102)
3. -primetime- Bo Jackson (103)
4. MarloStanfield - Isaac Bruce (104)
5. RedBlackAttack - Steve Atwater (105)
6. IlliniFan - Andre Tippett (106)
7. ruslan - Alan Faneca (107)
8. Dirtbag - Torry Holt (108)
9. Carbine - James Harrison (109)
10. statman32 - Jack Youngblood (110)

ROUND 12

10. statman32
- Mike Haynes (111)
9. Carbine - Patrick Willis (112)
8. Dirtbag - Tommy Nobis (113)
7. ruslan - Adrian Peterson (114)
6. IlliniFan - Paul Krause (115)
5. RedBlackAttack - Dermontti Dawson (116)
4. MarloStanfield - Richard Seymour (117)
3. -primetime- Mel Renfro (118)
2. Dasher - Roger Craig (119)
1. D-Shark - Chad Johnson (120)

ROUND 13

1. D
-Shark - Darren Woodson (121)
2. Dasher - Lynn Swann (122)
3. -primetime- Emmitt Thomas (123)
4. MarloStanfeild - Rodney Harrison (124)
5. RedBlackAttack - Steve Hutchinson (125)
6. IlliniFan - Lem Barney (126)
7. ruslan - Emlen Tunnell (127)
8. Dirtbag - Willie Wood (128)
9. Carbine - Andre Johnson (129)
10. statman32 - Hines Ward (130)

ROUND 14

10. statman32
- Paul Warfield (131)
9. Carbine - Charles Woodson (132)
8. Dirtbag - Jimmy Johnson (133)
7. ruslan - Darren Sharper (134)
6. IlliniFan - Kevin Williams (135)
5. RedBlackAttack - Greg Lloyd (136)
4. MarloStanfield - Kevin Mawae (137)
3. Dirtbag (from -primetime-) - Chris Doleman (138)
2. Dasher - Fred Biletnikoff (139)
1. Dirtbag (from D-Shark) Joey Porter - (140)

ROUND 15

1. Dirtbag
(from D-Shark) Shawne Merriman - (141)
2. Dasher - Mike Ditka (142)
3. -primetime- John Lynch (143)
4. MarloStanfield - Jimmy Smith (144)
5. RedBlackAttack - Ozzie Newsome (145)
6. IlliniFan - Jim Otto (146)
7. ruslan - Mike Munchak (147)
8. -primetime- (from Dirtbag) - Ronde Barber (148)
9. Carbine - Reggie Wayne (149)
10. statman32 - Ted Hendricks (150)

ROUND 16

10. statman32
- Cortez Kennedy (151)
9. Carbine - Calvin Johnson (152)
8. -primetime- (from Dirtbag) - Devin Hester (153)
7. ruslan - Albert Haynesworth (154)
6. IlliniFan - Lance Alworth (155)
5. RedBlackAttack - Tony Boselli (156)
4. MarloStanfield - Ruben Brown (157)
3. -primetime- Terrell Suggs (158)
2. Dasher - Bill Walsh (159)
1. D-Shark - Bob Hays (160)

ROUND 17

1. D
-Shark - Brett Favre (161)
2. Dasher - Bob Kuechenberg (162)
3. -primetime- Anquan Boldin (163) (to Dirtbag)
4. MarloStanfield - Zach Thomas (164)
5. RedBlackAttack - Jerome Brown (165)
6. IlliniFan - Joe DeLamielleure  (166)
7. ruslan - Olin Kreutz (167)
8. Dirtbag - Bob Sanders (168)
9. Carbine - Terik Glenn (169)
10. statman32 - Buck Buchanan (170)

ROUND 18

10. statman32
- John Mackey (171)
9. Carbine - Jeff Saturday (172)
8. Dirtbag - Casey Hampton (173)
7. ruslan - Lance Briggs (174)
6. IlliniFan - Dan Hampton (175)
5. RedBlackAttack - Clay Matthews (176)
4. MarloStanfield - Eric Allen (177)
3. -primetime- Mario Williams (178)
2. Dasher - Gilbert Brown (179)
1. D-Shark - Gary Zimmerman (180)

ROUND 19

1. D
-Shark - Ted Washington (181)
2. Dasher - Merton Hanks (182)
3. -primetime- Bill Belichick (183)
4. MarloStanfield - Ben Coates (184)
5. RedBlackAttack - Frank Minnifield (185)
6. IlliniFan - Art Monk (186)
7. ruslan - Curtis Martin (187)
8. Dirtbag - Lester Hayes (188)
9. Carbine - David Casper (189)
10. statman32 - Steve Largent (190)

ROUND 20

10. statman32
- Steve Wisniewski (191)
9. Carbine - Chad Brown (192)
8. Dirtbag - Jevon Kearse (193)
7. ruslan - Don Shula (194)
6. IlliniFan - Dave Wilcox (195)
5. RedBlackAttack - Deron Cherry (196)
4. Dirtbag (from MarloStanfield) - Ernie Holmes (197)
3. -primetime- Rayfield Wright (198)
2. Dasher - Russ Grimm (199)
1. D-Shark - Simeon Rice (200)

ROUND 21

1. D
-Shark - Dante Hall (201)
2. Dasher - Eric Metcalf (202)
3. -primetime- Elvin Bethea (203)
4. MarloStanfield - Rod Smith (204)
5. RedBlackAttack - Bill Fralic (205)
6. IlliniFan - Ron Yary (206)
7. ruslan - Chris Samuels (207)
8. -primetime- (from Dirtbag) - James Lofton (208)
9. Carbine - Vince Lombardi (209)
10. MarloStanfeild (from statman32) - Jared Allen (210)

ROUND 22

10. statman32
- Jim Parker (211)
9. Carbine - Jamal Lewis (212)
8. MarloStanfield (from Dirtbag) - Seth Joyner (213)
7. ruslan - Sterling Sharpe (214)
6. IlliniFan - Chuck Noll (215)
5. Red BlackAttack - Lorenzo Neil (216)
4. MarloStanfield - Pat Williams (217)
3. D-Shark (from Dirtbag) (from -primetime-) - Mike Alstott (218)
2. Dasher - (219)
1. D-Shark - (220)

ROUND 23

1. D
-Shark -
2. Dasher -
3. -primetime-
4. MarloStanfeild -
5. RedBlackAttack -
6. IlliniFan -
7. ruslan -
8. MarloStanfield (from Dirtbag) - (228)
9. Carbine -
10. statman32 -

ROUND 24

10. statman32
-
9. Carbine -
8. Dirtbag -
7. ruslan-
6. IlliniFan
5. Red BlackAttack
-
4. MarloStanfeild-
3. -Primetime-
2. Dasher -
1. D-Shark -

ROUND 25

1. D
-Shark -
2. Dasher -
3. -primetime-
4. MarloStanfeild -
5. RedBlackAttack -
6. IlliniFan -
7. ruslan -
8. Dirtbag -
9. Carbine -
10. statman32 -

ROUND 26

10. statman32
-
9. Carbine -
8. Dirtbag -
7. ruslan-
6. IlliniFan
5. Red BlackAttack
-
4. Dirtbag (from MarloStanfield)- (257)
3. -primetime-
2. Dasher -
1. D-Shark -



and Marino was one of the top QBs picked...a "non-winning" QB
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:27 PM   #72
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

To be fair.....every single one of us in that draft was promised a top 10 quarterback, so it makes total sense why they wouldn't go 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:38 PM   #73
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
No, great QB isn't a must...look at 2000 Ravens...or Bucs SB

and we had an all time draft here in ISH...the first picks weren't all QBs at all
when very average quarterbacks win, they have an all time great defense. which is true for both those teams.

how many teams in this league have an all time great defense right now? even the 49ers which could be the closest have had a few games giving up many points (not to mention, let them down some in the playoffs and superbowl). the ravens of 2000 and the bucs defense, those defenses are getting rarer and rarer.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:06 PM   #74
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by imdaman99
when very average quarterbacks win, they have an all time great defense. which is true for both those teams.

how many teams in this league have an all time great defense right now? even the 49ers which could be the closest have had a few games giving up many points (not to mention, let them down some in the playoffs and superbowl). the ravens of 2000 and the bucs defense, those defenses are getting rarer and rarer.
Seattle and San Fran have what I consider "elite defenses" and I wouldn't at all rule out the 49ers making the post season with Alex Smith instead of Kap.

the Ravens D was also amazing in the post season and a big part of their success
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:17 PM   #75
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Default Re: Wish people didn't make this all about the QBs

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
they are listed on NFL.com...they are an official NFL stat


It came up because I was pointing out the great "TEAM" that Flacco had around him this year, including Lewis this post season, and others like yourself tried to act as though he wasn't a factor this year so naturally I dug into his stats which say otherwise...

you can say he sucked all you want to, but he was putting more people down than anyone else

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...803692432.html

My point is that they're tackles, and they don't really mean as much as you think.
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