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Old 02-01-2013, 11:01 PM   #16
tmacattack33
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

See?

Kobe just had a lay-up there (7:40 or remaining in the 3rd quarter) and he dished it back out towards the top of the key to Earl Clark.

That was seriously one of the most awkward plays i've ever seen.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
he just passed up an open baseline layup to kick to his covered teammate at the top of the circle......
That's Kobe in his petulant, "I'm proving you wrong", passive-aggressive style of play which is really a back hand to himself, teammates, and coaches.

He did it in a game under Phil in the 2001 season where he deliberately passed up wide open shots. I believe against the Kings.

It goes back to as you described Kobe's flawed approach. He doesn't react on the fly, everything is pre-meditated and contrived.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Quote:
and he's always been a tremendous player with this severely flawed mindset. he's flat out BAD at adjusting within the flow of the game. it doesn't come naturally to him and it never has. not like it does for duncan or lebron, stars who you know will make the right decision just about every trip down the floor, as the situation demands.
You're right. And great post in general.

I do think that, aside from Kobe undergoing a total conversion of heart, and being a real human being, and playing like one... this awkward Kobe is >>> the gunner.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

What would be ideal for Kobe is a balance between the 2 approaches. 2008 is a perfect example, the roster overachieved because he was individually dominant when he had to be, played both ends, and made his teammates better. The 2001 playoffs are the other example of Kobe at his best in terms of approach and all around game.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
i still don't see it. lakers have been fun to watch but it's not like kobe has flicked a switch and completely transformed his mentality. the switch he flipped is tactical, not strategic. it's preconceived, proactive instead of reactive... "okay, now i have to play like this"
This is dead on. His unselfish play has been helping his teammates play better but you can tell he is not a natural pointguard, not because of a lack of skill because he definitely has the skill but because it seems like he makes up his mind before he even catches the ball. Sitting at home I can tell whether or not he is going to pass or shoot before the play
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
What would be ideal for Kobe is a balance between the 2 approaches. 2008 is a perfect example, the roster overachieved because he was individually dominant when he had to be, played both ends, and made his teammates better. The 2001 playoffs are the other example of Kobe at his best in terms of approach and all around game.
Yes, bro. Totally right. The 2008 season, and 2001 playoffs. Was Kobe just being himself, playing HIS game.

Because in those seasons he let the game come to him. Instead of being contrived, preconceived, forced or trying to adapt to a post MJ legacy.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Kobe went to the basket again and didn't look for his shot and ended up passing it to Clark who wasn't even open.

This is just getting weird now (I know you weren't talking about this...but instead were talking about when Kobe had 4 good passes in the 1st quarter...but yeah). I don't see how you could look at this and say it's good for the team.

They are lucky they are playing Minnesota without Kevin Love. These wasted possessions wouldn't cut it against a good or even average team.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

And yeah i agree with the above...in the 2009 playoffs he had a great scoring game combined with a good passing game and it was something i never seen from him.

I don't really remember 2001 of his much...i mostly watched the eastern playoffs and wasn't even that hardcore of a bball fan at that point.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:24 PM   #24
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
Yes, bro. Totally right. The 2008 season, and 2001 playoffs. Was Kobe just being himself, playing HIS game.

Because in those seasons he let the game come to him. Instead of being contrived, preconceived, forced or trying to adapt to a post MJ legacy.

I think the 2008 season and 2001 playoffs were also dictated by what happened before. Kobe was frustrated after his incredible individual play in '06 and '07, and receiving criticism, hence the trade demand. I do think it was good for Kobe to get those seasons "out of his system" because I think on some level, he did want to see how much he could score and how far he could take a team virtually by himself. Playing for Team USA also motivated him, he lost 20 pounds to take pressure off his knee, regain quickness and be a defensive stopper, and that carried into the 2008 season. Playing harder defensively also set the tone for getting more guys involved because it was a necessity.

In 2001, he had been criticized by Phil and feuded with Shaq while the Lakers underachieved early in the season. I think Kobe going down and the Lakers going 11-3 without him caused him to change his approach in that case.

2002 was also a good year in this regard, but I mention it less than the other two because he was less spectacular. He seemed to be pushing himself more in '08 season and '01 playoffs, but not in a bad way. But he played an excellent all around game in 2002 and did exactly what he had to do. He took over when they needed him to without forcing it, particularly late in games vs the Spurs. In fact, at one point in the playoffs, Phil told Kobe to look for his own shot more early in games. Even after the 56 in 3 quarters vs Memphis, it didn't seem like he let that get to his head.

I'll throw '09 in there as well. It's pretty much to his '08 what his '02 is to his '01.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:31 PM   #25
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Not fond of the PASSive Kobe. I understand he is doing the right thing shooting less and allowing Pau and Dwight to enjoy playing is beneficial for the team chemistry but I admire Kobe aggressively scoring with beautiful shooting form and footwork.

He is turning down too many opportunities to score and in the Suns game he kept giving MWP the ball for brick after airball.

The wait for the double and look for cutters is not Kobe trying to scorch the defense for 40, it's attract defensive attention and let an inferior scorer try and convert.

I admire him for stepping out of what defines him and becoming something different but I hope he remembers he is only player on that team who can bury any defense with points when he's on.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

ISH is bi-polar. Kobe is sharing the ball but they can't make anything. Just hogged the ball, Kobe.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton
If you had Magic Johnson on your roster, would you complain that he wasn't playing off-ball enough?

Kobe playing at his most intelligent is not as good as that, but he's close. I prefer Kobe in the high post playmaking to unsuccessful D'Antoni pick and roll basketball with a 39 yo Nash and no pick and roll big men.

Nash as a spot up shooter is going to shoot 45-50% from 3... I'll take that anytime


nash chose to sign in la because he wanted a ring. nash knew what he was doing, why blame LA for that?

edit: i guess it cut out the person u quoted.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:37 PM   #28
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by upside24
Not fond of the PASSive Kobe. I understand he is doing the right thing shooting less and allowing Pau and Dwight to enjoy playing is beneficial for the team chemistry but I admire Kobe aggressively scoring with beautiful shooting form and footwork.

He is turning down too many opportunities to score and in the Suns game he kept giving MWP the ball for brick after airball.

The wait for the double and look for cutters is not Kobe trying to scorch the defense for 40, it's attract defensive attention and let an inferior scorer try and convert.

I admire him for stepping out of what defines him and becoming something different but I hope he remembers he is only player on that team who can bury any defense with points when he's on.
Kobe shooting less is not making much of a difference.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:53 PM   #29
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

I really like the way Kobe's been playing, but he should still look to score a lot, since he's one of the best scorers ever and still is a top scorer in the league. I've caught limited snippets of the game today, but it seemed like he may be forcing the issue today at least, as others have said.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:54 PM   #30
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Default Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.

Kobe is arguably GOAT, and that scares people. They will hate on him whether he shoots more or passes more.
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