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Old 01-31-2013, 03:37 PM   #136
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

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Originally Posted by MJ23forever
Whenever Lebron gets the ball, he will control it for 60-70% of the shot clock, this is not sometimes, this is nearly every possession. Dude is so damn concerned about his stats, he will not pass the ball to a player who will not immediately shoot it because he will miss out on his assist. Look back at the Cavs times, their whole offense was based on Lebron iso's at the top of the key, due to the fact that everybody on the team could hit jumpers, Bron would easily get assists by attacking the main defender and dishing it to wherever the help came from. Watching the Heat, whenever Bron iso's, he NEVER looks for Wade. If Wade is spotting up, I had to look back at the Cavs to prove this to myself, if you are not a shooter and you are on the perimeter, even if its the smart and most effective pass to make, Lebron will not look for you. James plays the game to get his numbers, point blank period.

Every time I have seen spo trying to run a play involving the whole team, as soon as Lebron touches the ball, all of the ball movement completely stops. Crazy because when the isolation is for Wade, Dwayne attacks the defense quickly, and he makes the right pass about 90% of the time, Wade is not looking to stat pad, so when he is the primary focus the offense moves much quicker. Watch it for yourself, why the hell is it that every time Lebron touches the ball, he has to clear out the whole team? I am telling you, watch Miami swing Lebron the ball and watch how everything stops until Bron makes a pass to get his assist, it's ridiculous. If Lebron is trapped, he is still looking for the shooter instead of looking for a open player to receive the ball, notice the turnovers in these situations.

I was just thinking about these faults in his game and at first I was thinking that he was just selfish and a stat-padder, but no, his offensive game is very limited. So many people prop him up cause of his versatility, but I'm starting to disbelieve that more and more. Lebron can do a lot of things, but his dominance comes from his limitations. Here is a fact, Bron cannot attack the help defender/shader/cheating defender, so after beating the on ball defender, he will pass it 97% of the time, If he can't go straight up and finish after beating the on ball defender, he will pass it, and if you are not a shooter you will not touch the ball, even if it's the best pass to make. Lebron cannot pass the ball on fast breaks, he moves too fast to even attempt a pass and he doesn't with his head up on fast breaks, his intention on fast breaks is to score, and to score only. If a coach told Lebron that he cant dominate the ball, he wold be a career 18-5-5 type of player, no doubt in my mind about it.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:45 PM   #137
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

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Originally Posted by MJ23forever
The big difference between Lebron and Kobe is that Lebron looks for an assist, Kobe looks to make the right pass.

James is a willing passer but he is a willing passer to get the stats. Just look at how many times Bron will dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, until a shooter is open, that is called looking for the assist, not making the right pass.

Kobe doesn't ball pound the whole shot clock, he has always played within the offense as the Lakers facilitator, and he got more assists finding cutters than finding shooters.

Lebron almost always passes the ball if he knows it will lead to an assist. I rarely ever see him make the "hockey assist".

As great as Bron's passing ability is said to be and how unselfish he is said to be based on his assist numbers, he tends to only pass if he will get that assist. He pretty much refuses to pass just for the sake of ball movement and moving the defense, which is not a good thing at all when teams are packing in the lane.

I have always considered Lebron's "assists" ala Stephon Marbury-esque or Steve Francis-esque. I mean at their peaks they were what 9 assists type of guys? But you would never say that those 9 assists are similar to a Kidd or a Nash having 9 assists.

Facilitators look to create plays out of nothing. James, not so much. He's either going to pummel into the lane or throw it out for a cop-out assist.

Face it, Lebron is a player that really does care about his stats. He works for those assist totals and he rarely makes a pass that wouldn't directly lead to a bucket. You see it all the time. He'll sit on the post, or dribble at the top of the key just waiting for someone to get open and he'll hit them with a pass. He has no anticipation for the hockey assist or for how one of his first passes could lead to another pass that could lead to a bucket.

First off, these last few posts of your's have been horrible, but this part is the worst part of it all.


In his Cleveland days, I forget exactly what year as it was just a TNT little story, in which LeBron was more interested in his stats than winning, Mike Brown had a chalk board that listed every player on the roster and their "hockey assists". As I said, I don't remember the year but Mo Williams was definitely on the list and he half as many of these kind of passes as LeBron did and Mike Brown went on and on about how ball movement is underrated and LeBron is always making the right pass. Sure he has to say that last part, but I doubt he fabricated the whole chalk board.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:50 PM   #138
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

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Originally Posted by tmacattack33
Didn't read anything but the title of this thread, but lol, I'm hoping the op wasn't serious. The last four games hav proven that Kobe can only facilitate when he actively turns down scoring opportunities for himself... Lebron can play regularly and score 25 plus points and dish out 10 assists at the same time because he has the passing vision to do facilitate without changing his game to do so.

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Old 01-31-2013, 03:51 PM   #139
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

OP is usually a good poster so i'm pretty sure he's trolling.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:53 PM   #140
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

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Originally Posted by RoundMoundOfReb
OP is usually a good poster so i'm pretty sure he's trolling.

OP is revealing himself as a Lebron hater now?
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:59 PM   #141
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

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Originally Posted by Kiddlovesnets
OP is revealing himself as a Lebron hater now?
He has been one.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:58 PM   #142
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

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Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
- everybody here is getting butthurt over a question I asked - I neither gave nor drew any conclusions but "my shot is off" and I'm "having a bad posting day", okay

LOL, I have off days. But you actually said this is "worth discussing." This greatly implies that you have given it some judgement, time and thought.

1200 games versus 3 games.
17 years vs 3 days.
Had 8 years with the best finisher in the game
Yet 5 assist per game a consistent
His role his who career has been finisher

vs.

A career of a guy being the obvious best point Forward ever.
A guy who gets 7 assist per game with five guys name Mo.
Could facilitate teams to the finals with mysterious players
Definitely top two SF passers ever
Is a better facilitator than than best SG facilatator ever who won a title in that role, who is on his team!

But you got it. This is you on your "on" day - mind just runnin circles around mofo's. You hitting shots from three point land and just feeling it, right. Feeling good and bright today CavFTW? While you are at it why don't you hit us up on some "relativity theories" or why the Bees are dying? Mind as well school us on it all while you are hot.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:16 PM   #143
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
LOL, I have off days. But you actually said this is "worth discussing." This greatly implies that you have given it some judgement, time and thought.
1200 games versus 3 games.
17 years vs 3 days.
Had 8 years with the best finisher in the game
Yet 5 assist per game a consistent
His role his who career has been finisher

vs.

A career of a guy being the obvious best point Forward ever.
A guy who gets 7 assist per game with five guys name Mo.
Could facilitate teams to the finals with mysterious players
Definitely top two SF passers ever
Is a better facilitator than than best SG facilatator ever who won a title in that role, who is on his team!

But you got it. This is you on your "on" day - mind just runnin circles around mofo's. You hitting shots from three point land and just feeling it, right. Feeling good and bright today CavFTW? While you are at it why don't you hit us up on some "relativity theories" or why the Bees are dying? Mind as well school us on it all while you are hot.
Or...
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:28 PM   #144
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ23forever
The big difference between Lebron and Kobe is that Lebron looks for an assist, Kobe looks to make the right pass.

James is a willing passer but he is a willing passer to get the stats. Just look at how many times Bron will dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, until a shooter is open, that is called looking for the assist, not making the right pass.

Kobe doesn't ball pound the whole shot clock, he has always played within the offense as the Lakers facilitator, and he got more assists finding cutters than finding shooters.

Lebron almost always passes the ball if he knows it will lead to an assist. I rarely ever see him make the "hockey assist".

As great as Bron's passing ability is said to be and how unselfish he is said to be based on his assist numbers, he tends to only pass if he will get that assist. He pretty much refuses to pass just for the sake of ball movement and moving the defense, which is not a good thing at all when teams are packing in the lane.

I have always considered Lebron's "assists" ala Stephon Marbury-esque or Steve Francis-esque. I mean at their peaks they were what 9 assists type of guys? But you would never say that those 9 assists are similar to a Kidd or a Nash having 9 assists.

Facilitators look to create plays out of nothing. James, not so much. He's either going to pummel into the lane or throw it out for a cop-out assist.

Face it, Lebron is a player that really does care about his stats. He works for those assist totals and he rarely makes a pass that wouldn't directly lead to a bucket. You see it all the time. He'll sit on the post, or dribble at the top of the key just waiting for someone to get open and he'll hit them with a pass. He has no anticipation for the hockey assist or for how one of his first passes could lead to another pass that could lead to a bucket.

Very few gerat superstars could win or get a lot of assist with those Clevelend teams. If Lebron pummels into the lane why are his TO's lower than Kobe's? whom you say handles the ball a lot less. Why is his FG% always higher if he plays so chaotically? Why does he always win even when his teammates are bad.

The player that resembles Lebrons strengths in the whole league is Dwade. Their styles by nature clash. Yet he and Lebron run almost completely fluid and are the best duo ever in running the fast break. DH and Kobe should be totally complimentrary and they are totally out of sync - if one was a natural facilitator then there is no problem. I don't think Lebron and DH could be under 500. after 4 games played, plus having another all star on the team? Kobe is not a facilitator and never was. He's shot the ball 27 times per game and 16 times more than the next Laker over the course of a year. Facilitator is not his role and its not a knock against him at all being that he's a top ten great.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:32 PM   #145
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
Or...
Haha,
You're Baitman!!!
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:38 PM   #146
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Default Re: Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
LeBron James makes the right play, which results in assists.

Kobe tries to get assists.





Big difference.
Kobe makes plays that needs to be made, which results in points.

Lebron tries to get championships.


Kobe has 5 of them.
Hugemongous difference.
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