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Old 02-01-2013, 12:48 AM   #136
hitmanyr2k
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
1993 NBA Finals, Game 6 @ Phoenix.

The ultimate Pippen "choke" in Clutch game.

Coach Westphal pointing to Pippen giving the "chokeing sign of Miller" in Clutch 4th quarter crunch time. classic.

1993 MVP Barkley pointing to Pippen with "chokeing sign of Miller" in clutch 4th quarter crunch time....another Classic .

Pippen responsible for 24 secs Shot Clock violation....TWICE.



GOAT enters the game after the rest.....

Bulls score the lowest 4th Quarter total in NBA Finals History....12 Pts.

Jordan scores the "ULTRA CLUTCH" 9 pts out of 12 pts....

Paxon hits the Game winning 3 pointer....

Rest is History

Pippen choked away 2 crucial 4th quarter TURNOVER giving SUNS a 4 pts lead with 4 mins left the game!!

Pippen scored ZERO out of possible 12 pts of 4th Quarter

Pippen still won the Game 6 of NBA Finals ON THE ROAD...

...as usual, GOAT saved Pippen's sorry little si$$y choking ar$e & made him a champ again.

case closed.

Eh, the Bulls aren't even in the Finals without Pippen's play. With the Bulls down 0-2 in the ECF and the Knicks looking for the knockout punch in Game 3 Jordan didn't exactly have a stellar shooting game but his team picked it up...Pippen in particular. Same goes for the closeout Game 6 against the Knicks where Jordan couldn't hit the broad side of a barn while Pippen was hitting the daggers down the stretch to send the Knicks home. That's why you have two stars on the team. One to pick up the slack when the other is struggling.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:37 AM   #137
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
1993 NBA Finals, Game 6 @ Phoenix.

The ultimate Pippen "choke" in Clutch game.

Coach Westphal pointing to Pippen giving the "chokeing sign of Miller" in Clutch 4th quarter crunch time. classic.

1993 MVP Barkley pointing to Pippen with "chokeing sign of Miller" in clutch 4th quarter crunch time....another Classic .

Pippen responsible for 24 secs Shot Clock violation....TWICE.



GOAT enters the game after the rest.....

Bulls score the lowest 4th Quarter total in NBA Finals History....12 Pts.

Jordan scores the "ULTRA CLUTCH" 9 pts out of 12 pts....

Paxon hits the Game winning 3 pointer....

Rest is History

Pippen choked away 2 crucial 4th quarter TURNOVER giving SUNS a 4 pts lead with 4 mins left the game!!

Pippen scored ZERO out of possible 12 pts of 4th Quarter

Pippen still won the Game 6 of NBA Finals ON THE ROAD...

...as usual, GOAT saved Pippen's sorry little si$$y choking ar$e & made him a champ again.

case closed.
I hate Jordan fans like you Ghengis. I find myself having to diminish Jordans greatness to prove a point. In that game six, in the span youre refering to, Jordan was 3/15. Pippen only took two shots. Grant took 2, and Paxson hit the game winner. THEY ALL SHOT BAD. It wasnt as if Jordan went 12/15 or something. I remember my friend pointing this out to me. He litterally looked like Kobe out there. He wasnt even looking to pass the ball. It was their defense that won that game for them.

I dont remember Westphal or Barkley doing that, but even if they did, Pippen has almost as many Rings as they have fingers to wrap around their throat. One of them at the expense of those two. So who gives a shit
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:40 AM   #138
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
Eh, the Bulls aren't even in the Finals without Pippen's play. With the Bulls down 0-2 in the ECF and the Knicks looking for the knockout punch in Game 3 Jordan didn't exactly have a stellar shooting game but his team picked it up...Pippen in particular. Same goes for the closeout Game 6 against the Knicks where Jordan couldn't hit the broad side of a barn while Pippen was hitting the daggers down the stretch to send the Knicks home. That's why you have two stars on the team. One to pick up the slack when the other is struggling.
Or game 2 in 91. When Jordan got into foul trouble I almost died. Pippens defense was spectacular that game. And basically, it saved Jordan from having to defend him.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:41 AM   #139
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
I hate Jordan fans like you Ghengis. I find myself having to diminish Jordans greatness to prove a point. In that game six, in the span youre refering to, Jordan was 3/15. Pippen only took two shots. Grant took 2, and Paxson hit the game winner. THEY ALL SHOT BAD. It wasnt as if Jordan went 12/15 or something. I remember my friend pointing this out to me. He litterally looked like Kobe out there. He wasnt even looking to pass the ball. It was their defense that won that game for them.

I dont remember Westphal or Barkley doing that, but even if they did, Pippen has almost as many Rings as they have fingers to wrap around their throat. One of them at the expense of those two. So who gives a shit

You are just as bad as he is to be honest, both of you go to ridiculous extremes to diminish each player, you just type it better.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:42 AM   #140
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon1121
You are just as bad as he is to be honest, both of you go to ridiculous extremes to diminish each player, you just type it better.
Lol why woukd you say such? I dont diminish Jordan. I just respect the fact that the Bulls were more than just Jordan
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:46 AM   #141
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
I hate Jordan fans like you Ghengis. I find myself having to diminish Jordans greatness to prove a point. In that game six, in the span youre refering to, Jordan was 3/15. Pippen only took two shots. Grant took 2, and Paxson hit the game winner. THEY ALL SHOT BAD. It wasnt as if Jordan went 12/15 or something. I remember my friend pointing this out to me. He litterally looked like Kobe out there. He wasnt even looking to pass the ball. It was their defense that won that game for them.

I dont remember Westphal or Barkley doing that, but even if they did, Pippen has almost as many Rings as they have fingers to wrap around their throat. One of them at the expense of those two. So who gives a shit

Like I said, you guys both go to ridiculous extremes to diminish both players.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:05 AM   #142
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

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Originally Posted by guy
Who said they didn't need Pippen to carry a significant workload to win? That doesn't mean there was an argument between who was more important. The fact that we are even having discussions about this makes him overrated.

They both did pretty much everything with Pippen taking a bit more of a role in facilitating and arguably defense (specifically in the 2nd three-peat) and Jordan taking a much larger role scoring especially at the end of games. And Pippen taking a larger role in certain aspects doesn't necessarily mean he was actually better at those aspects, but more because Jordan taking more of a role in everything would not have been an efficient strategy when there were other alternatives so he could focus more on aspects there weren't alternatives for such as scoring cause he was by far their best option.

They both took different leadership approaches, Jordan being aggressive and Pippen being passive. And when the team was in a slump, needed a big game in a playoff series, or just needed to send a message or intimidate an opponent with his play, they looked to Jordan.
Great post. I do disagree with you saying Pippens leadership was "submissive". Id say it was supportive.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:39 AM   #143
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
I hate Jordan fans like you Ghengis. I find myself having to diminish Jordans greatness to prove a point. In that game six, in the span youre refering to, Jordan was 3/15. Pippen only took two shots. Grant took 2, and Paxson hit the game winner. THEY ALL SHOT BAD. It wasnt as if Jordan went 12/15 or something. I remember my friend pointing this out to me. He litterally looked like Kobe out there. He wasnt even looking to pass the ball. It was their defense that won that game for them.

I dont remember Westphal or Barkley doing that, but even if they did, Pippen has almost as many Rings as they have fingers to wrap around their throat. One of them at the expense of those two. So who gives a shit



Gosh these fake revisionists.

1993 NBA Finals @ phoenix: Mr Jordan had 3 3ptFGM / 5 3ptFGA in first 3 Quarters

1993 NBA Finals @ phoenix: Mr. Jordan had 13 FGM / 26 FGA in all 4 Quarters. Thats 50%FG ave. That is Excellent for NBA Finals btw

How did MJ shot poorly

Like I said, keep on "revising" & go "over the top" to improve & legitamize Pippen's all-time greatness.

at the end of it all, Pippen is still a trail blazer Pippen, a choker without His Airness, GOAT on his side.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:03 AM   #144
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Underrated...as a punk.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:25 AM   #145
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Great post. I do disagree with you saying Pippens leadership was "submissive". Id say it was supportive.

I didn't mean it like that, nor did I mean to imply he wasn't an effective leader. He was. They were good cop/bad cop. Pippen's supportive leadership was effective by balancing out Jordan's aggressive approach.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:16 AM   #146
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan


Gosh these fake revisionists.

1993 NBA Finals @ phoenix: Mr Jordan had 3 3ptFGM / 5 3ptFGA in first 3 Quarters

1993 NBA Finals @ phoenix: Mr. Jordan had 13 FGM / 26 FGA in all 4 Quarters. Thats 50%FG ave. That is Excellent for NBA Finals btw

How did MJ shot poorly

Like I said, keep on "revising" & go "over the top" to improve & legitamize Pippen's all-time greatness.

at the end of it all, Pippen is still a trail blazer Pippen, a choker without His Airness, GOAT on his side.
You were the one that brought up that fourth quarter. Thats why I qualified my point by saying in that span you were reffering to. Which was Jordan scoring all but 3 pts in that fourth quarter. Pippen had a great game overall as did Jordan. His stat line was 23/12/5 for that game.

You cant even stay on your own point.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:57 PM   #147
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

In terms of technical brilliance on BOTH SIDES of the ball, Pippen is arguably the best SF of all time in that regard. But in terms of DOMINANCE on both sides of the ball, Bron takes the cake at SF. DOMINANCE is the number attribute that makes a player great. Pip was a great defender, passer, and rebounder at the SF.

The part that hurts Pip though is the scoring aspect. U got guys in that 6'6 to 6'8 bracket like MJ, Kobe, Hondo, Bron, etc. who have great all around games on both sides of the ball AND are dominant scorers. Frankly, I wouldn't take Pip over any of these guys. How about other great all around players such as Magic, Bird, Barry, Big O, T Mac, Drexler, etc. I wouldn't take Pip over these guys either. Now on a GOAT list that factors accolades, longevity being great, numbers, etc. Pip may rank higher than some of these guys.

The question becomes would u take a Pip type over a DrJ-Baylor-King-Nique-Durant-Melo-Gervin type. U know scoring machine SG's or SF's who aren't great all around, but are so dominant scoring that it supercedes that. Frankly, I wouldn't take Pippen over any of these guys in most cases.

So is Pip underrated or overrated? I people are ranking Pip a top 25 player then HELL YA he's overrated. If u are talking more 30-40 then I'm fine with that. If anything, Pip redefined the SF, is the greatest perimeter defender of all time arguably, and has epic team accomplishments. But peak value wise, I would rather have a Durant, Dr.J, or Nique type over Pip.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:17 PM   #148
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizil
In terms of technical brilliance on BOTH SIDES of the ball, Pippen is arguably the best SF of all time in that regard. But in terms of DOMINANCE on both sides of the ball, Bron takes the cake at SF. DOMINANCE is the number attribute that makes a player great. Pip was a great defender, passer, and rebounder at the SF.

The part that hurts Pip though is the scoring aspect. U got guys in that 6'6 to 6'8 bracket like MJ, Kobe, Hondo, Bron, etc. who have great all around games on both sides of the ball AND are dominant scorers. Frankly, I wouldn't take Pip over any of these guys. How about other great all around players such as Magic, Bird, Barry, Big O, T Mac, Drexler, etc. I wouldn't take Pip over these guys either. Now on a GOAT list that factors accolades, longevity being great, numbers, etc. Pip may rank higher than some of these guys.

The question becomes would u take a Pip type over a DrJ-Baylor-King-Nique-Durant-Melo-Gervin type. U know scoring machine SG's or SF's who aren't great all around, but are so dominant scoring that it supercedes that. Frankly, I wouldn't take Pippen over any of these guys in most cases.

So is Pip underrated or overrated? I people are ranking Pip a top 25 player then HELL YA he's overrated. If u are talking more 30-40 then I'm fine with that. If anything, Pip redefined the SF, is the greatest perimeter defender of all time arguably, and has epic team accomplishments. But peak value wise, I would rather have a Durant, Dr.J, or Nique type over Pip.
Why do you attempt to compare stats across eras? Case and point, Hondo avg 29 ppg in 71. The league avg for FG attempts per team was 8038. The year Pippen avg 22? The league avg was 6924. Thats more than a thousand more attempts per team. Can you even try to be objective?
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:33 PM   #149
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Why do you attempt to compare stats across eras? Case and point, Hondo avg 29 ppg in 71. The league avg for FG attempts per team was 8038. The year Pippen avg 22? The league avg was 6924. Thats more than a thousand more attempts per team. Can you even try to be objective?

It comes down to the fact that Hondo is a better number one option than Pip was. Hondo in many ways was the precursor to Pip. Pip just added Dr.J type athletic ability and size to it. Thus the new age point forward model was born. Hill came later and now Bron is taking it to the ultimate heights. But the thing is Pip aint a true alpha dog kind of player. Hondo and Bron both excelled and dominated in that fashion better than Pip ever did.

With all of Pip's accomplishments why isn't he regarded as a top 10-15 player:

6 Time World Champ
2 time gold medalist
Arguably the greatest perimeter defender ever
Redefined SF position
All Star Game MVP
7 Time All Star
7 Time All NBA
10 Time All Defensive

The reason why is because he's a Robin instead of Batman. That's not a bad thing and Pip's still great. But the bottom line is Pip WASN'T an alpha dog, and that's the most premium asset in all of bball. The point forward skills that Pip brings to the table isn't a premium asset at SF, it's a bonus. Other than PG, premium alpha dog scoring is the premium asset, and even most of the best PG's ever have the alpha dog gene more than Pip. U don't believe me look at Magic, Big O, Isiah, Frazier, Payton, Nash, Tiny, and CP3. I would rather have ANY of those PG's willing my team to victory scoring and dishing than Pip. If Pip's DOESN'T win a ring or play with Mike is he a HOFer? Guys like Nique, Barkley, Stockton, and Ewing were clear HOFers WITHOUT a ring. Guys like Marques Johnson, Bernard King, etc. aren't in the HOF yet. King has more career points than Pippen and his peak value was higher. So Pippen WITHOUT a ring might not even be an HOFer and most CERTAINLY not 50 greatest.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:00 PM   #150
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

I don't agree that Pippen wasn't a Batman or #1 option. He may not have had an alpha personality, but that means little to me if you bring the impact. Durant does not have an alpha personality, at all. He has a passive-aggressive personality, but he's a scorer.


Scottie was a legit PG who could score 20+PPG and do it at a good percentage, and do it on a slow-paced team...even a slow-paced team, behind Michael. Those second 3peat Bulls were not running a lot, but they were so great that they scored more than everyone else. And he got his points.


Even in games where his shot wasn't falling, you saw Scottie attacking the basket and continuing to look for his shot, racking up high-scoring games. And he did everything. He did what you needed to win and did it while actually leading the team. He literally was the 1st option for less than 2 full years. No one has any basis to claim he wasn't a capable or winning 1st option, based on that. Other than Hakeem and MAYBE David Robinson, there wasn't a better player in that two year span. Not Charles, not Karl, not Patrick, not Shaq.
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