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Old 01-30-2013, 12:34 AM   #31
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

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Originally Posted by Jackass18
What are you proposing?
I propose we focus on the handguns everyone in the country has not and the assault rifles that on a tiny handful of people own ...
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:39 AM   #32
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

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Originally Posted by miller-time
You are missing the larger argument. Think back to the debate in general and not this specific image. How many times have you heard automobile and alcohol related deaths being brought up? Both of these have nothing to do with gun violence, yet they are being used to indirectly justify current gun laws (or to promote even more lax gun laws).

The rifle comparison is only part of the image, but the subtext is the comparison between death caused by other things that have nothing to do with guns. Two wrongs don't make a right. It doesn't matter how many people cars and alcohol kill per year. That is a different debate - which means it shouldn't be brought up in this one (especially covertly because that is a manipulation tactic rather than a justifiable comparison).
Okay, yes I agree

It's like when people constantly feel the need to point at alcohol when the debate is about pot....very annoying
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:49 AM   #33
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

The real problem is boomerangs and slingshots. Oh, and let's not mention the silent killer that everyone keeps extremely quiet so as not to draw attention. The nunchaku'z. These are the real killer machines. They can land you in the hospital in a single three or four hits.

Oh, but we want to talk about AK-47s and handguns. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles never needed high powered gunpowder tools. They simply just used weapons that could be made from home with common everyday materials. Why are we not going after those instruments of war?

If you get hit in the face with a nunchaku... you my friend are fucked. Especially if the user of that weapon is coming down the road on a street bike and just so happens to swing it and smack you upside the head.

FLAWLESS VICTORY.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:07 AM   #34
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
I propose we focus on the handguns everyone in the country has not and the assault rifles that on a tiny handful of people own ...

I mean to what extent? Across the board banning or what?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:27 AM   #35
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackass18
I mean to what extent? Across the board banning or what?
I don't know really...I haven't given that much thought

Making them much harder to obtain somehow...not sure of the best way to go about that though
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:11 AM   #36
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
I don't know really...I haven't given that much thought

Making them much harder to obtain somehow...not sure of the best way to go about that though

The harder you make them to obtain... the "harder" the criminal or insane son of a bitch will attempt to obtain the weapon illegally, and they will eventually obtain the object. It'll be a wash essentially.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:18 AM   #37
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
The harder you make them to obtain... the "harder" the criminal or insane son of a bitch will attempt to obtain the weapon illegally, and they will eventually obtain the object. It'll be a wash essentially.

So your solution is do nothing? Just make it easy for them to obtain simply because making them work harder is futile?

While there is no data to back my claim (at least that I know of), I think it is fair to say that in at least some cases the availability of the gun in the first place might be instrumental in the person actualizing a crime. What I mean is that they might not necessarily seriously consider a committing crime, but then access or acquisition of a gun will then lead them to actually consider and commit the crime. However if they weren't able to get the gun easily they may just let the thought pass them by.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:28 AM   #38
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

I still think that people who are looking to reduce gun ownership are really missing the problem (especially when they talk about assault rifles. Assault rifles are basically already banned with a couple exceptions)
First off, even if you somehow get rid of all the guns say like UK did, it doesn't mean much. The UK doesnt have gun crime but they have worse violent crime rates than the US.
If you take away a gun from everybody, it doesn't deter any crime. It just changes what is used when committing crimes which really does nothing. Maybe lower homicide rates, but that's if you took away guns altogether in the US, and that's plainly illegal.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:38 AM   #39
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-


http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/29/us/han...html?hpt=hp_c4



I saw this on CNN today...we are focusing our attention to the wrong guns, assault rifles, which are barely used at all in homicides, just the once a year school shooting that makes people think assault rifles are the problem.

Handguns are the real problem...and they aren't being addressed at all

anyway, homicide and violent crime is on the decline overall anyway, but I just thought this was interesting...our natural reaction is to ban assault rifles, but assault rifles aren't really an issue in the grand scheme of things...

I don't really have a stance on the issue, just a note. This graphic is fairly useless and terribly misleading...without knowing what percentage of guns rifles comprise, it's difficult to make that call.

This site cites this November 2012 Congressional Research Service report, noting that of the approximately 310 million firearms in the US as of 09, there were:

114 million handguns
110 million rifles
86 million shotguns

in addition to some number of assault weapons in private possession, approximately to 1.5 million in 94. There were around 275 million people in the country in that year as opposed a little over 307 million in 09, so let's assume the ownership of assault weapons scales proportionately with the population growth, to 1.67 million (not a huge difference); this gives us a total of 311.67 million weapons, with the following percentages:

36.5% handguns
35.3% rifles
27.6% shotguns
0.1% assault weapons.

We can't directly compare this with the pie chart due to the presence of the 'Unknown' category, but let's (perhaps haphazardly) assume that that 18% follows the same breakdown as the rest of the chart (also, let's identify 'Other' with assault weapons, which seems to be a assumption). The percentages then scale to:

87.8% handguns
4.9% rifles
4.9% shotguns
2.4% assault weapons.

Comparatively speaking, the percentage differences are:

+41.3% handguns
-30.4% rifles
-22.7% shotguns
+2.3% assault weapons

while in terms of ratios, we get:

2.4x handguns
0.1x rifles
0.2x shotguns

24x assault weapons.

So based on the above data and suppositions, a few simple calculations tell us that in homicides by-and-large, the most problematic of all (on a case-by-case basis) are assault weapons (assuming they comprise the 'Other' category in the pie chart), with a huge gap, followed by handguns. In terms of overall prevalence, handguns are the biggest culprit.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:48 AM   #40
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
So your solution is do nothing? Just make it easy for them to obtain simply because making them work harder is futile?

While there is no data to back my claim (at least that I know of), I think it is fair to say that in at least some cases the availability of the gun in the first place might be instrumental in the person actualizing a crime. What I mean is that they might not necessarily seriously consider a committing crime, but then access or acquisition of a gun will then lead them to actually consider and commit the crime. However if they weren't able to get the gun easily they may just let the thought pass them by.

No, I'm, just saying ... you know what I'm saying.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:52 AM   #41
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
No, I'm, just saying ... you know what I'm saying.

I do. I'm just saying there is a grey area. Not all crimes are premeditated or organized. Some are just opportunism and crimes of passion.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:44 AM   #42
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
I do. I'm just saying there is a grey area. Not all crimes are premeditated or organized. Some are just opportunism and crimes of passion.

Alright, that's a point that must be taken and can't be ignored. I'm just saying, those who try hard enough to get those gun/weapons will.; especially if they have the money/resources to obtain them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:15 AM   #43
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

Drunk driving kill more people every year than atomic bombs, so clearly that's a bigger threat.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:44 AM   #44
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

Atomic Bomb comparisons don't work guys smh

Obviously that is a unique situation
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:54 AM   #45
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Default Re: Rifles make up 4% of gun homicides...Handguns make up 72%

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
Atomic Bomb comparisons don't work guys smh

Obviously that is a unique situation


It's actually not. It's just taking it to the extreme. The more deadly something is, the more rules and regulations we need on it. No ones died from an atomic bomb in about 70 years. Does that mean we shouldn't have laws against them?
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