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Old 01-26-2013, 06:38 AM   #61
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Bob Pettit and the Hawks in 58.

Was Elvin Hayes considered better than Wes Unseld with the Bullets and their lone title ?

Yes
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:16 AM   #62
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Duncan is a center in any era. He was only a PF because David Robinson was still on the team.

+1

i never got why people call duncan a pf.
was hakeem a because he played with sampson?
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:16 PM   #63
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Bob Pettit and the Hawks in 58.

Was Elvin Hayes considered better than Wes Unseld with the Bullets and their lone title ?

No it was Wes Unseld's team and he was the heart and soul of that team much like KG was to Boston. Hayes was considered a distraction, much like putting Roy Tarpley on KG's team. Stat wise he would be up on KG but no way would you consider him the better player. There's a difference.

Petit wasn't in the conversation. The conversation is around Barkley, Malone and KG. I didn't see the show but if Barkley is third who might be second behind Malone.. according to Malone. My argument is that KG and Duncan were very similar in output. Duncan had an unique ability to win like few others ever had. A great intangible.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:53 PM   #64
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

Dirk > Malone
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:09 PM   #65
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

his best and most productive seasons were at PF. Just because he played more seasons at the 5 spot? That is one of the weakest arguments you can make. He made the position switch because of the combined evolution of the PF spot (stretch 4s, quick face up 4s, rarely any back to the basket PFs now) and because of his age. He dominated the 4 spot but we are gonna forget all of that because he played more seasons at the 5? I think the mailman's gone crazy y'all
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:15 PM   #66
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

malone got so many easy ass buckets from the pick and roll. a lot of his success should be credited to stockton.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:51 PM   #67
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
This was recently discussed on PSD. Splitter starts at Center and is in the low post more than Duncan BUT.... Duncan is normally the one guarding opposing centers and being guarded by opposing centers, therefor he's actually playing center, despite what position they are listed as right now.

Duncan has guarded, and been guarded by, way too many power forwards in the here an now and in the past for this to hold any weight.



Just last month, Duncan and KG, two of the best PF's ever, were guarding each other. TD was guarding Griffin some the other day too, and has for the past couple years.

Duncan and KG have guarded each other through out their careers, although they mostly don't guard each other for strategy reasons.

And if you say "Garnett was playing Center that game", which he was next to Bass, it really exposes the cracks in this school of thought. The fact is, the league is a PG and Swingman's game nowadays, and some of the best centers of today are PF's (Duncan, Garnett, Horford, Jefferson, etc). Which is why they are called PF/C.

Gregg Pop, when the Suns and Mavs were looking strong in the late 2000's, became infatuated with stretch-4's and envisioned Matt Bonner being the next Robert Horry or Dirk (2008-2010) it failed big time. Since then SA has had more traditional bigs. McDyess with the Spurs played PF/C and even Blair was a collegiate C (though undersized in the NBA). Splitter most definitely plays center nowadays, and he did in Europe too.

And your logic makes no sense CF86, because in reality "position a" doesn't always guard "position a". Bruce Bowen often guarded PG's and SG's and opposing team's would often hide their best player (often a PG or SG) on Bowen because he wasn't an offensive threat. It's called strategy. Dirk Nowitzki for years played like a seven foot shooting guard, often avoided tough assignments to stay on the floor, and he's the "Power" forward?

Ultimately it comes down to match ups. There's like no AS centers nowadays. Putting Duncan on them on defense = less fouls, less wear and tear for his older body, more energy for help D. Now Tiago has gotten to the point where the Spurs are better served starting him at center, and you can even see his defensive impact improving (in the center of the floor, close the basket).
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:25 PM   #68
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

Duncan usually matched up with 4s when he played with Robinson and Rasho, but for quite a few years now, probably '07 on, he's primarily matched up with centers. There are exceptions, just as there are exceptions in the Robinson years since it wasn't uncommon for Duncan to match up with a center, he just didn't the majority of time.

As far as where he's played primarily. Well, his first few years, it was definitely more PF. Though as Robinson's minutes started to decrease, particularly by 2003, Duncan was virtually splitting time playing with both Robinson and Malik Rose. Rose would actually guard the centers at times, including Shaq, but it's pretty clear who was more of a center between Duncan and Rose. This was fairly similar to some of the Rasho years as well, when Duncan played quite a bit with Rasho as well as Horry at other times.

Duncan's game to me has always resembled a versatile, skilled center. He has the size, post game and defense of a center, but he's also been a good jump shooter out to 18-20 feet for years, and it's seemed that he's actually relied on his outside shot more since he moved to center. He was also a very good face up big man when he was young who could take other big men off the dribble and get to the basket. That's probably the part of his game that's fallen off the most. As well as guarding 4s. In his prime, he was more than capable of guarding either position, and exploiting either position at the other end. He was bigger than 4s and quicker than most 5s. He's still great to watch. I love watching his passing from the high post and the Spurs halfcourt offense executed flawlessly. Parker and Duncan have become a phenomenal screen/roll duo over the years.

I'd take him over Barkley and Malone as a player. I don't really think of him as a power forward, but if you ask me to choose between the 3 to start a franchise, I definitely have to go with Duncan.

But I'd also definitely take Barkley over Malone. No question in my mind who the better player was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
yeah, you're right to disagree.

Duncan plays with alot of range, always has, but is using it as much as ever. That's more characteristic of PF's than pure centers. Splitter has started the last 20 or so games at center.

You look at the offense of guys like: Howard, Bynum, Chandler, D. Jordan, Splitter, etc, and it's almost entirely scoring in the paint.

Duncan – especially in his prime – utilizes the midrange, high-post, off the dribble, face-up, jump shooting, game what we see from so many PF's.

Duncan's 2013 shooting



Tiago's 2013 shooting


You could make that same point about other big men duos, though. Look at Hakeem and Thorpe. Hakeem took a good amount of jumpers as his career went on, while Thorpe was primarily a guy who would finish or post up. Thorpe really didn't take many jumpers. Hell, Robinson was less of a low post player than Duncan.
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:40 PM   #69
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

It should also be noted Duncan was a center in college and projected to be one in the NBA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho8OT89WI6w
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:47 PM   #70
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

You don't get to be the greatest at your position when you do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPBLeb8h9Ts&t=5m19s
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:51 PM   #71
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliteballer
It should also be noted Duncan was a center in college and projected to be one in the NBA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho8OT89WI6w

Yeah, Charles Barkley played center in college too... same with Antonio McDyess.... and LaMarcus Aldridge... so many other big men.

Really, doesn't deny the fact that Duncan played PF from 1998-2008. A full 10 years into his career and into his 30's.

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Old 01-26-2013, 06:46 PM   #72
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

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Originally Posted by Round Mound
He Was a Better All Around Player but I Don`t Know If His Impact Was Greater.

wRiting tHis wAy mAkes aS mUch sEnse aS yOur cApitalization sCheme
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:05 PM   #73
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
According to 82 games Duncan has primarily been a center for 7 years now. I don't quite agree with him but there is truth to the idea that people constantly call Duncan a PF when in fact he's spent nearly half of his career playing center. It's just more favorable when people call him a PF. I understand he was a listed PF back when the Spurs won titles but he was usually the one guarding the opposing teams center and had the opposing center guarding him.

Blake will never be better than Duncan, no matter where Duncan plays.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:58 PM   #74
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

Bump..
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:02 PM   #75
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Default Re: Karl Malone on Dan Patrick Show "Charles is the 3d Best PF, Duncan is a Center...

Malone: Duncan was a C, Barkley was a SG, Dirk was a SF and KG was a a PG. Im the best PF of all-time.
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