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Old 01-25-2013, 05:18 PM   #46
Mrofir
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by HurricaneKid
Which is one of the 100 other reasons. But to say Jordan was perfect in the Finals ignores the fact that he won 6 titles but lost in the playoffs 7 times.

Its also important to point out that at no point during MJs career was it legal to play zone defense. That is essentially entirely how LeBron has been defended, especially in the playoffs.


You are showing your youth here. The defense played in the 90s was more intense than the defense played today, and some of that has to do with rule changes regarding perimeter contact. You just have an agenda.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:19 PM   #47
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Zone defense? Really people?
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:20 PM   #48
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by TylerOO
I absolutely agree. He may not have the career MJ had but he is definitely a better overall player.
um...no

just no


it is really obvious who grew up watching MJ and who didn't in here
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:21 PM   #49
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Huge Lebron fan here however he has a lot more to prove to be in that conversation. Talent Wise and Physical Skills he is definately in the conversation already but Results are what matters in the long run.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:23 PM   #50
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by Mrofir
MJ lost in the first round to some legendary teams, and that was part of the making of his legacy. The "legacy", ie somewhat subjective part HAS to factor in to figuring out who the GOAT is. Otherwise we're just counting numbers from different eras.

The fact that once MJ got a taste of the finals, he kept coming back and winning, is a CRITICAL part of his legacy. If he had won his 6 rings in a 1010101 configuration instead of 3-peats, and had not shut out legends like Barkley and Malone, the debate around GOAT would be much more active. It's an argument based on perceptions, but the fact is if you watched basketball back in those days, MJ owned the league and had a mental edge on everyone that he rode to those 6 championships. Nobody has come close to doing that. LBJ doesn't just need 6 rings to compete with MJ, he needs some of them in succession. He needs to build that edge that nobody else has.

I think you have me wrong. I am almost certainly more age appropriate to have enjoyed MJs career than almost anyone here. I don't think LeBron is CLOSE to MJ. He has to stay at this current level for several years before it can even be suggested. But for some reason we have to compare greats.

I think LeBron with his strength would have fared VERY well in MJs age. He also would have been far more of a scorer than he is today since he has been defended almost entirely by defenses that Jordan never faced (zone vs man).
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:23 PM   #51
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneKid
Which is one of the 100 other reasons. But to say Jordan was perfect in the Finals ignores the fact that he won 6 titles but lost in the playoffs 7 times.

Its also important to point out that at no point during MJs career was it legal to play zone defense. That is essentially entirely how LeBron has been defended, especially in the playoffs.

and again -- anyone who watched basketball during the 90s knows MJs legacy would not be the same if it wasn't for the 3-peats and the fact that once he tasted finals success, he literally refused to allow a litany of other legendary players win a ring, until he retired. The ONLY reason Hakeem is so highly regarded is that MJ played baseball.

(don'tgetmewronghakeemisagreatplayerbutstillwithout ringsdifferentlegacythankstomjretirement)
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:24 PM   #52
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrofir
You are showing your youth here. The defense played in the 90s was more intense than the defense played today, and some of that has to do with rule changes regarding perimeter contact. You just have an agenda.

It's actually common knowledge amongst any educated bball fan, as well as anyone who watched Jordan in his prime, that perimeter defense is not allowed to be as good today. Read up on "The Death of Defense"
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:25 PM   #53
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrofir
and again -- anyone who watched basketball during the 90s knows MJs legacy would not be the same if it wasn't for the 3-peats and the fact that once he tasted finals success, he literally refused to allow a litany of other legendary players win a ring, until he retired. The ONLY reason Hakeem is so highly regarded is that MJ played baseball.

(don'tgetmewronghakeemisagreatplayerbutstillwithout ringsdifferentlegacythankstomjretirement)
would have been a 7-peat had his father not died

and no one disputes that fact either
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:30 PM   #54
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
It's actually common knowledge amongst any educated bball fan, as well as anyone who watched Jordan in his prime, that perimeter defense is not allowed to be as good today. Read up on "The Death of Defense"


You are agreeing with me, just confirming. lol
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:32 PM   #55
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneKid
I think you have me wrong. I am almost certainly more age appropriate to have enjoyed MJs career than almost anyone here. I don't think LeBron is CLOSE to MJ. He has to stay at this current level for several years before it can even be suggested. But for some reason we have to compare greats.

I think LeBron with his strength would have fared VERY well in MJs age. He also would have been far more of a scorer than he is today since he has been defended almost entirely by defenses that Jordan never faced (zone vs man).


Dennis Rodman probably would have guarded LBJ in the second three peat era. I would give anything to see that.

edit: Lebron facing those bulls teams would have seen a combo of pippen\jordan\rodman... just imagine those 3 vs lebron\wade on defense. The imaginary heat\bulls matchup is just so delicious to think about. Not saying anyone can shut LBJ down, but he would have had problems with Rodman especially. Bosh would have to score 30pts per game for the heat to compete. Or Chalmers would have to be KJ.

Last edited by Mrofir : 01-25-2013 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:33 PM   #56
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrofir
You are agreeing with me, just confirming. lol

Yep.

As for people that say MJ never faced doubles and triples or zones? That MJ was never doubled without the ball? This video debunks ALL those lies:
K Jordan VS Zone Isolation 1-1 Defense

Truth ALWAYS wins :)
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:42 PM   #57
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Just perfect, 4 pages gone by and only ONE mention of a single big man (prime Shaq)...
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:49 PM   #58
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrofir
You are showing your youth here. The defense played in the 90s was more intense than the defense played today, and some of that has to do with rule changes regarding perimeter contact. You just have an agenda.

10 bucks says I'm older.

The defense was more physical to be sure. You could "hand check" which was just allowing people to grab your hips to slow you. But the defenses couldn't play zone so you would famously have 3 guys standing at one side of the court and play 2 on 2 on the strong side. Now there are USUALLY 4 people on the strong side. If you look at how Boston defended LeBron in all those playoff wins (Thibs was the first one to really maximize use of the zone rules) there were always 3-4 defenders designed to stop him.

Its a completely different, and far more complex, obstacle. And the difference in scoring variance is enormous. In 88-89 there were only 25 teams. But there were 28 players who avg >20ppg. This year there are 30 teams and only 9 players >20ppg. Defenses are far more complex and they are designed to make the stars defer to lesser players.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:59 PM   #59
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by Mrofir
You just have an agenda.

I am a GROWN MAN. My house is filled with original art and prints from the great museums of the world. With one exception: I have a framed picture of MJ.

If I had an agenda it is to glorify his existence and to celebrate the fact that I get to breathe the same air he does.

I will laugh at this accusation for the next 20 years.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:01 PM   #60
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

wow!!

LBJ is definitely a better than Copy Cryant no doubt all-time & on current peak prime years.

BUT

LBJ aint at MJ level till he gets to 32.5 / 8 / 8 @ 53%FG with 3 SPG.

right now, LBJ is pretty faar off from MJ or Bird or Big Os 30+PPG triple double season.
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