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Old 01-21-2013, 04:09 PM   #16
jlip
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

News flash:
Players have ALWAYS cared about stats. Wilt was often conscious of his stats. Kareem was very upset that Jerry West was awarded the '70 scoring title because of the change from totals to per game. Magic and Bird admitted that they would get up the next morning and look at the paper for each others' stats just to see who was doing better. MJ was found checking the scorer's table in the middle of games just to see how close he was to triple doubles. What D Wade and Lebron are doing is nothing new whatsoever. Plus an awareness of fg% has nothing to do with Hollinger's popularization of advanced stats. FG% has been recorded for decades and several players across the generations have been aware of their shooting efficiency.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

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Originally Posted by SCdac
Players have probably been fully cognizant of their stats and efficiency for decades. I don't put much stock into this being something new.

Beat me to it.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

I think this is a good thread topic. I mean sure, good efficiency usually equals better production, but players can get obsessed with those numbers too much. I've certainly seen it happen in cricket where certain players will get tied up playing for their average or personal milestones and settling for a drawn match instead of a win for their team. In basketball that can translate into holding off from taking that tough last second shot instead of passing the ball to a lesser shooter.

The best way to use these statistics is to modify your game so you naturally achieve good %ages instead of forcing the issue, which I'm sure is easier said than done.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlip
News flash:
Players have ALWAYS cared about stats. Wilt was often conscious of his stats. Kareem was very upset that Jerry West was awarded the '70 scoring title because of the change from totals to per game. Magic and Bird admitted that they would get up the next morning and look at the paper for each others' stats just to see who was doing better. MJ was found checking the scorer's table in the middle of games just to see how close he was to triple doubles. What D Wade and Lebron are doing is nothing new whatsoever. Plus an awareness of fg% has nothing to do with Hollinger's popularization of advanced stats. FG% has been recorded for decades and several players across the generations have been aware of their shooting efficiency.

Again I'm not protesting that players have always cared about stats, in fact that's the genesis of this thread. You can't tell me that any point in NBA history has efficiency stats being emphasized and glorified the way it is now. This elevation of efficiency stats has had a real impact on players play the game. Players always play based on what is valued by the general public and now that's efficiency.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

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Originally Posted by STATUTORY
I fully agree players have always been cognizant of stats

but it's which stats are considered important that have changed. in early 2000s it was just about PPG hence you had a wealth of volume shooters

now it's all about efficiency. so all the players now try to have high fg% and volume shooting is considered outmoded and relegated.

I don't believe that at all. I think we just have two players who have matured, are going on their 10th season, and see their all-time rank rising (see the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak).

I doubt young Derrick Rose in mid-game was sacrificing his opportunities for the sake of FG efficiency. Maybe to get a better shot within the offense, but not for individual gain.

Like Lebron, I see all of this as more of a young vs. old thing...

Quote:
ďIt comes with age, it comes with experience. You know, when youíre an 18 year old rookie, or a 21-year-old, third year in the league, you can get away with a lot of mistakes, and not looking at numbers as much. But as Iíve gotten older, Iíve been more efficient, taking care of the ball. I value possessions more.Ē
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:14 PM   #21
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

It also means they're looking for the best looking high % shot as possible. This is better than fading over 2 defenders...
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

statutory please stop failing and taking losses I am starting to feel sorry for you and I dont like that feeling
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

It is telling. Today's players are more worried about looking good on paper (stat sheets).
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightprowler10
I think this is a good thread topic. I mean sure, good efficiency usually equals better production, but players can get obsessed with those numbers too much. I've certainly seen it happen in cricket where certain players will get tied up playing for their average or personal milestones and settling for a drawn match instead of a win for their team. In basketball that can translate into holding off from taking that tough last second shot instead of passing the ball to a lesser shooter.

The best way to use these statistics is to modify your game so you naturally achieve good %ages instead of forcing the issue, which I'm sure is easier said than done.
I am in agreement with you. Like most topics, I think there's two sides to this story. All players obviously cannot be so choosy that they only opt to shoot when it's a wide open dunk. On the flip side, they also can't opt to shoot every single time down the floor.

The entire game of basketball consists of finding the right mix. Flat out chasing a points per game average without at least kind of taking efficiency into account would be and always has been very misguided. I had a teammate who seemed to be chasing a points quota my sophomore year. He took 70 more shots than anyone else on the team and shot at a 27% clip. It wasn't pretty.

Again though, on the other hand, if players are constantly thinking about their running field goal percentage, I can see how that'd be a detriment as well. I'd say the best goal would be to worry about taking good shots, period. If a player's taking shots that are of the highest quality for their team on a given possession, they should not worry about a thing. But if they're just out there firing up terrible shots because "that's how they play", then yes, a change might be in order.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

Quote:
Originally Posted by red1
6-24? just another day in the office

You still mad that boston lost?
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:34 PM   #26
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

Yeah, being efficient and maximizing possesions on a consistent basis. Why would any player want to do that?
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

Man ill take Lebron pull up jumper over a defender than UD 20 foot open jumper. Ill take a Kobe fadeaway over a defender than an open 3 from Blake. Some things you give and take. Casual fans dont care about stats. They see W or L. The hardcore fans are the ones that nitpick that stuff which causes debates all over threads. If Kobe bricks a gamewinner over a defender we say bad shot, Lebron would have found a better shot. If Lebron passes a game winner opportunity, we say Kobe will never pass that up. If Kobe hits a gamewinner we go all hail clutchbe. If Lebron hits a gamewinner we say lucky shot.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

Proof those guys in miami are nothing but clowns. Kobe please, never retire, use robotic limbs or w/e it takes, we want true winners out there.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:40 PM   #29
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

red1 all over this thread trying to defend lebron and wade, slurping their coock
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueandGold
You still mad that boston lost?
Buck foston that series was a LOL for me. I am just saying that kobe has a chucker mentality and OP is trying to act like that is superior to having an efficiency mentality
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