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Old 01-07-2013, 01:16 PM   #1
franchize
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Default Let's face it...

I was going to call this thread "I t old you so" but, beyond that sounding narcissistic, I admittedly couldn't even predict all the glaring reelations from this season. The point of this thread is just to put some conclusion and affirmation on stuff that SHOULD be obvious at this point.

Let's just face it...

1. The Knicks are legit. Are we a serious threat to Miami? I'm not sure. I think we may be a year away. That said, this is more than a fluke. We are a legit team that should be in the top half of the playoff seeding. We have multiple quality wins over multiple quality opponents. If I'm not mistaken, the only team who we outright have lost the season series to is Houston. The Knicks will, at the very least, have the opportunity to make some noise come playoff time.

2. Carmelo Anthony is an elite player. IDGAF what anybody says. My definition of "elite player" is a guy that can consistently compete and often times outplay ANY player in the league. Melo is exactly that. In my opinion, an elite player is a guy where, regardless of whoever he's facing, he's on an equal playing field. There isn't one player in the league that I fear putting Melo against...even LeBron. Not saying he's better or that LeBron can't have a good game against him. I'm just saying there isn't one player in the league where I concede that they will automatically have a better game than Melo. I have he utmost confidence in him on BOTH ends of the court.

3. Mike Woodson may not be the best coach, but he's a phenomenal motivator! He's not the best X's and O's guys (although I love how we look coming out of timeouts and beginning 2nd halves). That said, Woodson has a knack for instilling a confidence in players that makes them believe they're better than they are. Most importantly though, Woodson instills an expectation of accoutability and professionalism that we haven't seen in YEARS from or head coaches going back even before D'Antoni. I can tell he requires guys to respect the game. Guys take initiative to get better. Add something to their game. Just be a professional on the court. Felton lost weight. Melo is more focues defensively. Amare is in better condition and at least talking about defense. Novak has clearly worked on a quicker release and pump fake. JR...forget about it. By FAR the best year of his career.

4. We need to get younger. I like the veteran leadership and all that but we need balance. Melo is one of our youngest players on the team. That's ridiculous. I'm tired of hearing, "we'll be fine when _____ get's back." Given our age and health history, there's no doubt in my mind that our starting lineup will be a revolving door all year long. We need a few young guys we can grow with to add stability. Guys that will be able to suit up every night. I'm almost sure we won't cut Prigioni or Thomas (even though we need to) but there's no reason why we can't cut White. He literally is just running up and down the court trying not to screw up. James White gives us nothing but good cardio on the basketball court. He's taking up a roster spot that could go to a guard like Delonte West or big like Samardo Samuels.

5. Tyson Chandler is not an elite defenderI know you're thinking "here we go again." Well yes. Here we go again. Let's just stop saying it all together once. He's not a liability but he's not a huge impact defensively like Mike Breen loves to say he is. He does his job. I'm not even going to how much he gets paid. Let's just call a spade a spade once and for all. He's a decent defender. A decent rebounder (underachieving defensive rebounder IMO). An mediocre shot blocker. I also won't even get into his offense. Let's just all agree, he's not Mutumbo or Ewing or even Dwight on D.

6. Jason Kidd has contributed a lot this year, but he's NOT the long term solution as our starting SG. He's a great leader. He doesn't make many mistakes. His basketball IQ is very high and he always knows what to do. That being said, he IS NOT a starter, especially come playoff time. We cannot afford to give him big time minutes. I have no problem with him splitting time with Felton at point but, come playoff time, I don't wanna see this guy as our starting SG.

7. Ronnie Brewer has run his course. This guy can't continue to log big time minutes and give us ZERO offensively. I still like he signing because he actually contributes. Anytime you get a solid player for the min, it's a win, but Brewer cannot continue to start basketball games for us.

8. Chris Copeland needs to play more. He seems like the type of player that plays well when he knows he's going to be on the court. He needs confidence from his coaches and teammates to sustain his solid play. You only get that by getting meaningful minutes on the court.

9. Woodson's substitution patterns MUST improve. There are too many times where we don't have playmakers on the court. You cannot have Kidd, Prigioni, Brewer, Novak, Kurt Thomas, Chandler, Camby, White etc. and put any combination of more than 3 of those guys on the court. That is just an offensive liability. Those guys cannot create their own shots.

10. Beyond us playing well, there's a new sense of PRIDE behind being a Knicks fan. It's not just about winning. It's about the fact that we are winning big time, quality games and a legit fashion. We aren't winning on some fluke hot streak or a player catching lightning in a bottle for a string of games. We are blowing teams out AND we are winning ugly games too. We win on nights where we play out of this world...but most teams do. It's the games where we struggle and still gut out an ugly win that impress me most.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: Let's face it...

Solid post, good topic fam.

The only thing I disagree with is the youth factor.

Vets win 9/10, kids get sent home before dark.

The OKC's of this world are rare as hell, and quite the unlucky bounce.

They probably got to the finals in the first place by the vet leadership of Derek Fisher.

we could use 2 more youngins though, but that's what the 2013 pick is for.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: Let's face it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
Solid post, good topic fam.
They probably got to the finals in the first place by the vet leadership of Derek Fisher.

we could use 2 more youngins though, but that's what the 2013 pick is for.


What you said about the Knicks is what I'm saying though. I'm not saying scrap all the old guys and bring in a bunch of green ass youngsters. I'm just saying throw a young player or 2 in the mix.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Let's face it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize


What you said about the Knicks is what I'm saying though. I'm not saying scrap all the old guys and bring in a bunch of green ass youngsters. I'm just saying throw a young player or 2 in the mix.
well in that case...

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Old 01-08-2013, 09:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: Let's face it...

Some things I can see some I dont agree with.

The best thing that happened was the hot start. When you diagnose this season that start is what gets the Knicks in the playoffs. All they have to do is play .500 ball from this point on. The reality is just above a .500 team that can get a high seed with super quality wins! I am so proud of that.

The roster is old because the Knicks are going for it now. This small window with Melo and Stat they have sold their soul to win now. They havent had draft picks and you dont find young guns without picks or significant injuries. Bad teams can allow youth and DLeaguerz to play. Championship teams dont have that luxury generally.

I am glad Melo has turned the page in his career and has accepted the responsibility of being a better player which he always had in him just never committed to it. He has always been an elite scorer but not an elite player.

Mike Woodson is a miracle worker and yes he sucks with x's and 0's.

Jason Kidd, Brewer, Prigi, just cant play significant minutes or be relied on to be major contributors. I dont mind any of these old dudes or less talented dudes just dont depend on them to be more than what they are. This has to be about Felton, JR, Melo, Stat, Chandler all other players are strictly role players. I dont include Shump because his value is limited to a defensive role (I pray that he finds an offensive game since he's been gone but its hard to improve your game coming back from an injury).

You can call Tyson whatever you want. Elite or not Elite. He is a role player that can man the middle. Now if you going to put a bunch of little guys around him that cant watch his back as a rebounder and defender well any center will be inconsistent. You put guys up on the perimeter that cant play defense yeah he is going to be inconsistent. Thank god Camby is there now to give him some relief. Think about this when JR smith is your 2nd leading rebounder or close to it then how much blame am I going to give Tyson, me personally not much. NO TEAM puts all small non defenders around a defensive center and expect greatness all the time. To me I wont call him out. Probably DHoward is the only Center that could deal with this situation.

I think as far as the rotation Woodson is limited. This roster is limited and like we've been saying Franchize not so great. With that said he has figured out that Melo or JR has to be on the floor at all times in some capacity regardless who else is out there. JR will have his moments he will be cold and the Knicks will struggle.

I agree with most of what you say I just have to amend some of it with my mojo.

Last edited by Rameek : 01-08-2013 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: Let's face it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Some things I can see some I dont agree with.

The best thing that happened was the hot start. When you diagnose this season that start is what gets the Knicks in the playoffs. All they have to do is play .500 ball from this point on. The reality is just above a .500 team that can get a high seed with super quality wins! I am so proud of that.

The roster is old because the Knicks are going for it now. This small window with Melo and Stat they have sold their soul to win now. They havent had draft picks and you dont find young guns without picks or significant injuries. Bad teams can allow youth and DLeaguerz to play. Championship teams dont have that luxury generally.

I am glad Melo has turned the page in his career and has accepted the responsibility of being a better player which he always had in him just never committed to it. He has always been an elite scorer but not an elite player.

Mike Woodson is a miracle worker and yes he sucks with x's and 0's.

Jason Kidd, Brewer, Prigi, just cant play significant minutes or be relied on to be major contributors. I dont mind any of these old dudes or less talented dudes just dont depend on them to be more than what they are. This has to be about Felton, JR, Melo, Stat, Chandler all other players are strictly role players. I dont include Shump because his value is limited to a defensive role (I pray that he finds an offensive game since he's been gone but its hard to improve your game coming back from an injury).

You can call Tyson whatever you want. Elite or not Elite. He is a role player that can man the middle. Now if you going to put a bunch of little guys around him that cant watch his back as a rebounder and defender well any center will be inconsistent. You put guys up on the perimeter that cant play defense yeah he is going to be inconsistent. Thank god Camby is there now to give him some relief. Think about this when JR smith is your 2nd leading rebounder or close to it then how much blame am I going to give Tyson, me personally not much. NO TEAM puts all small non defenders around a defensive center and expect greatness all the time. To me I wont call him out. Probably DHoward is the only Center that could deal with this situation.

I think as far as the rotation Woodson is limited. This roster is limited and like we've been saying Franchize not so great. With that said he has figured out that Melo or JR has to be on the floor at all times in some capacity regardless who else is out there. JR will have his moments he will be cold and the Knicks will struggle.

I agree with most of what you say I just have to amend some of it with my mojo.

You know I value and respect your opinion. My only two issues are with your stance as far as our older players and regarding Chandler.

I'm not saying rid the entire roster and get ALL young players. At this point, Kidd is great for our chemistry. He alo doesn't make mistakes. What's done is done as far as his contract. I'm not asking for us to replace him. I'm just asking we add young talent. One or two guys. Even if we kept all the young guys. Why can't we replace James White? He's not a vet and he gives us NOTHING. Although I would opt to replace Prigioni, Kurt Thomas and James White offer us the least.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: Let's face it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
You know I value and respect your opinion. My only two issues are with your stance as far as our older players and regarding Chandler.

I'm not saying rid the entire roster and get ALL young players. At this point, Kidd is great for our chemistry. He alo doesn't make mistakes. What's done is done as far as his contract. I'm not asking for us to replace him. I'm just asking we add young talent. One or two guys. Even if we kept all the young guys. Why can't we replace James White? He's not a vet and he gives us NOTHING. Although I would opt to replace Prigioni, Kurt Thomas and James White offer us the least.
O No I know you dont want all kids. But the Knicks just didnt have the resources to get young talented kids. They wont be in the rotation and this staff never develops youth.

Kidd man I dont get the love affair with this guy. I mean he is a good asset in a limited role. But he holds the ball and everyone has to run around to get open. His version of penetration is backing down into the hole until the double team comes so he can pass. I mean he has some value but not all the love he's been getting.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Let's face it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
O No I know you dont want all kids. But the Knicks just didnt have the resources to get young talented kids. They wont be in the rotation and this staff never develops youth.

Kidd man I dont get the love affair with this guy. I mean he is a good asset in a limited role. But he holds the ball and everyone has to run around to get open. His version of penetration is backing down into the hole until the double team comes so he can pass. I mean he has some value but not all the love he's been getting.

You're preaching to the choir about Kidd man lol
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