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Old 12-21-2012, 01:16 AM   #16
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

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Originally Posted by Scoooter
Marc Gasol is interesting because he can shoot mid-range jumpers (like Z-Bo) and he's an amazing passer. Chandler doesn't have anything approaching that skill set. Chandler is either catching lobs or getting in the way. And Amar'e and Melo are both at their best facing up mid-range and down.

Ditto MIA has LeBron, who can do anything.
SHHHHH you cant say anything bad about Chandler lol
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

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SHHHHH you cant say anything bad about Chandler lol
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

Scooter you make great points but because Chandler isnt a shooter or a passer like Gasol then all three players cant be successful on the floor at the same time.

So Chandler is the reason all 3 of these guys cant coexist? Is that what you saying? this is what clutch, franchize are buying into?
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:29 AM   #19
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

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Originally Posted by Rameek
Scooter you make great points but because Chandler isnt a shooter or a passer like Gasol then all three players cant be successful on the floor at the same time.

So Chandler is the reason all 3 of these guys cant coexist? Is that what you saying? this is what clutch, franchize are buying into?
actually i thionk he is saying since amare and melo are so redundant in areas we really don't need, that's the reason, but really the problem was amare.

Melo and Tyson play fines together.

Melo and Amare overall haven't had good games together.

Amare and Tyson doesn't really have good games together.

Sounds like the issue is amare, hopefully he'll accept the bench.

what funny is our three only has one player who can pass, whereas Memphis three all can pass.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:45 AM   #20
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

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Originally Posted by Rameek
Scooter you make great points but because Chandler isnt a shooter or a passer like Gasol then all three players cant be successful on the floor at the same time.

So Chandler is the reason all 3 of these guys cant coexist? Is that what you saying? this is what clutch, franchize are buying into?
Melo,Amare and Tyson played well last season under Woodson. I'm not sure they can co-exist together but I'm willing to give it a shot. Woodson has been great so far so let's see if he can make it work. Surely I have more faith in him than in D'Antoni.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:46 AM   #21
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

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Originally Posted by knickscity
actually i thionk he is saying since amare and melo are so redundant in areas we really don't need, that's the reason, but really the problem was amare.

Melo and Tyson play fines together.

Melo and Amare overall haven't had good games together.

Amare and Tyson doesn't really have good games together.

Sounds like the issue is amare, hopefully he'll accept the bench.

what funny is our three only has one player who can pass, whereas Memphis three all can pass.
Thanks for clarifying... Because I just cant see why others can co-exist....

I guess passing is an issue what about Amare makes it difficult for him to play with these guys? I want specifics really.....
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:52 AM   #22
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

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Originally Posted by Rameek
Thanks for clarifying... Because I just cant see why others can co-exist....

I guess passing is an issue what about Amare makes it difficult for him to play with these guys? I want specifics really.....

Mainly because they have to cover for him on defense and they have to cater to him on offense, and he can't facilitate for them.

On offense, if Amare doesn't have the ball to finish he's virtually useless.

At least Tyson will clean up misses, and give the team another possession, and is reliable in the pnr without a demand for it.

Melo is the complete player, he has no blame in this, but I do think Melo's game will take a hit trying to get amare going.

That's not what Memphis and Miami experiences when their players get each other going, those guys can facilitate for each other and can individually hold their ground defensively.

Amare can do no such thing.

Our best hope is that he'll accept that bench role and take some of JR's shots.

It's already gonna be a spotlight on these guys in 4th quarters together.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

Any two of them are fine. Melo + Chandler works, as does Amar'e + Chandler, I'm sure.

The 80's Celtics had a bit of a logjam with Parrish, McHale, and Bird, but the transcendent talent of Bird, and the Hall of Fame talents of McHale and Parrish made it work.

If all three of them are going to be on the court together - and let's face it, that will happen at some point - the offense is going to have to run through Kidd (I think he's the only one really up to the task), and one of them (probably Melo) is going to have to shoot more from the outside.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

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Originally Posted by knickscity
Mainly because they have to cover for him on defense and they have to cater to him on offense, and he can't facilitate for them.
When Amar'e was playing center a couple of seasons ago, he was flying around and blocking shots pretty well, other defensive troubles aside. If he goes back to that, he and Chandler could have an opportunity to compliment each other nicely on that end.
Quote:
On offense, if Amare doesn't have the ball to finish he's virtually useless.
Amar'e's a scorer. He can iso, he can shoot, and he can play very well of the ball. Of course he isn't going to do much if you don't give him the ball. Guess what, that's true of Melo too. The main difference between the two is that Amar'e sets picks. And he's more efficient. The Knicks need a point guard to dole out the touches competently. Luckily, they might have that.

Quote:
At least Tyson will clean up misses, and give the team another possession, and is reliable in the pnr without a demand for it.

Melo is the complete player, he has no blame in this, but I do think Melo's game will take a hit trying to get amare going.

That's not what Memphis and Miami experiences when their players get each other going, those guys can facilitate for each other and can individually hold their ground defensively.

Amare can do no such thing.

Our best hope is that he'll accept that bench role and take some of JR's shots.

It's already gonna be a spotlight on these guys in 4th quarters together.
It's amazing how Amar'e went from an MVP candidate to "can do no such thing" right when Melo showed up. That was apparently the great Rubicon. And yet he is "the complete player who deserves no blame". It doesn't make any sense. Melo's having a great season, but complete players with flawless games don't lose in the first round every year. And useless power forwards don't make multiple All-Star games and multiple Conference Finals trips.

We all know, or should know, that the problem isn't necessarily either of these two guys on their own, it's how they work together. They both need touches. The Knicks answer so far, in a variety of different ways, is to give the bulk of those touches to Melo, and then bitch when Amar'e doesn't produce. The situation should be reversed. Amar'e's spent the better part of a decade being the more efficient scorer, and more likely to draw fouls. Inside out. Attack down low first, kick it back out if that doesn't work. The Knicks do the opposite, but unless they plan on trading Amar'e, or simply not playing him, some adjustments will have to be made.

But I don't think we need to vilify the guy that's precipitated the starkest turnaround for the better in recent Knicks history.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

BTW, we were talking about Marc Gasol earlier, and I called him an amazing passer. Most 7'1", 300lbs. monsters can't make plays like this.

Just thought some great basketball should be appreciated.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:18 PM   #26
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Scooter you make great points but because Chandler isnt a shooter or a passer like Gasol then all three players cant be successful on the floor at the same time.

So Chandler is the reason all 3 of these guys cant coexist? Is that what you saying? this is what clutch, franchize are buying into?
I dont recall saying they cant coexist. Correct me if I forgot my own words but I dont ever remember saying that. In fact, just this week I said I think people are jumping to conclusions assuming Amare would come in and ruin things. I cant speak for Clutch, but I dont buy into the notion that they cant play together. In my opinion, the only worry I have is whether Woodson can get the same effort and mindframe from Amare that he has gotten outta everyone else.
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:30 AM   #27
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

The answer is to get Felton off the floor as much as possible, and let Kidd run the offense with Shumpert and JR Smith at the 2 guard. Felton is absolutely killing us out there.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

Right now, felton is playing a role he shouldn't, but really has no choice.

No one is making shots right now, sadly he has to shoot.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
Right now, felton is playing a role he shouldn't, but really has no choice.

No one is making shots right now, sadly he has to shoot.
Felton in last 8 games:

9-30 (1-3) @ Chicago
4-15 (0-2) vs Denver
3-12 (1-3) @ Brooklyn
9-26 (0-3) vs LA Lakers
9-20 (3-4) vs Cleveland
7-18 (0-4) vs Houston
4-14 (0-3) vs Brooklyn
9-21 (0-4) vs Chicago

TOTAL: 54-156 (34.6% FG) and 5-26 (19.2% 3-pt)



As bad as Felton shot the ball Brewer shot it even worse

Brewer's last 8 games:

0-5 (0-1) @ Chicago
3-6 (1-4) vs Denver
0-4 (0-2) @ Brooklyn
3-6 (0-2) vs LA Lakers
1-3 (0-1) vs Cleveland
1-3 (0-1) vs Houston
1-5 (0-1) vs Brooklyn
0-4 (0-2) vs Chicago

TOTAL: 9-36 (25% FG) and 1-14 (7.1% 3-pt).



He hasn't made a three pointer in the last 6 games. He was the main reason for our poor start against the Bulls and the Nets almost ran away when Brewer was on the floor.

Jason Kidd has also been cold lately but not really comparable to these two.

Last edited by Clutch : 12-22-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:47 PM   #30
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Default Re: The answer to the rotation when amare and shumpert return

Last nights games just proved we need Amare and Shumpert. When Melo is out or his shot isnt falling, we need guys to keep the defense honest. We have too many guys who cant take or make shots inside the arc. In the playoffs, those open 3s arent going to be there all night. Im sorry but Raymond Felton should not be any teams second leading scorer.
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