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Old 12-12-2012, 04:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Neither have the potential of Dion Waiters, tho.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:23 PM   #17
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

both are still raw and have many holes in their game
i would probably go with davis because he is a big
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

If I were to pick one to draft it'd be Davis no question (Cavs should have both ffs). That said I haven't watched much of Davis this year, so I can only go off of the stats. Kyrie's rookie year was far more impressive than Davis's has been.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Davis will never be that good offensively, Irving has the bigger upside.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Hard work beats talent in the long run..
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnyozzzoo
Err, do you guys seriously not know what is ceiling and potential?

Ibaka has a bigger body, much better athletic, play based on instinct. Skill set is limited. Imagine if he come work so hard and gain a good big man handle like Chuck, keep improving his shooting and learn post moves, with his body any GM will wet their pants, But he will probably never gain those things, but its potential, its possible.

Irving and Harden both are mostly below rim player, they are not crazy fast. Their skill is already so good there is no way they can improve their shooting, handle, body control even more. Harden use weight strength draw contact, Irving manipulate, twist, spin so well. They are not gonna shot 60% FG 50% 3s coz its impossible. See the point their ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT is smaller.

lots nba draft is base of potential(room of improvement) since dude enter the league so young. Hell most of them never ever reach the potential. It's just as dumb as saying wat if Wall has Irving skill, then he will be better coz he run fast jump higher and more explosive. But he probably will never improve to that point, But its possible for Wall to gain skill, It's not possible for Irving and Harden to gain speed and hops.

Two people can spend an equal amount of time working on the same thing yet one can come out ahead of the other. Potential is not limited to athletic traits. There are alot of mechanical skills as well as mental ones that some are naturally more talented in. The combination of that talent with physical talent = potential.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

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Originally Posted by Andi
Hard work beats talent in the long run..


keep telling that to all the white guys sitting on the end of the bench


But seriously, this is the NBA. Natural gifts outweigh hard work.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenleomessi
both are still raw and have many holes in their game
i would probably go with davis because he is a big
And this is what it comes down to. It's no knock on Kyrie, but i'll take the big in this situation. Big men with the kind of skills Davis has is hard to come by.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Havent seen Davis play enough
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnyozzzoo
Err, do you guys seriously not know what is ceiling and potential?

Ibaka has a bigger body, much better athletic, play based on instinct. Skill set is limited. Imagine if he come work so hard and gain a good big man handle like Chuck, keep improving his shooting and learn post moves, with his body any GM will wet their pants, But he will probably never gain those things, but its potential, its possible.

Irving and Harden both are mostly below rim player, they are not crazy fast. Their skill is already so good there is no way they can improve their shooting, handle, body control even more. Harden use weight strength draw contact, Irving manipulate, twist, spin so well. They are not gonna shot 60% FG 50% 3s coz its impossible. See the point their ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT is smaller.

lots nba draft is base of potential(room of improvement) since dude enter the league so young. Hell most of them never ever reach the potential. It's just as dumb as saying wat if Wall has Irving skill, then he will be better coz he run fast jump higher and more explosive. But he probably will never improve to that point, But its possible for Wall to gain skill, It's not possible for Irving and Harden to gain speed and hops.



Ibaka has nowhere near their potential. Body and athleticism are not the definition of potential. Ibaka has, at best, the potential to be a top 10 PF in the league (if he stays at PF). And even that I don't think he is or really has potential to be anytime soon. LMA is slower and not nearly as athletic. LMA has a lot more potential. LMA is better now than Ibaka ever could be.


Harden and Irving are below the rim because they're skill players. Both are explosive, especially Harden.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Dwight Howard isn't "better" than Kevin Durant, but I bet many, if not most people would rather start a team around Howard.

There are simply more guys who can score from the perimeter than there are guys who can lock down the paint on defense.

Likewise, I think because Davis' strengths are rarer, you'd almost have to go with him. Kyrie is awesome, but how many awesome young PGs are out there right now? Every team has one: Westbrook, Rondo, Kemba Walker, Wall, Mike Conley, Ricky Rubio, Damian Lillard, Jrue Holiday, Curry.. then there are guys who have fallen off the radar but are still good, like Lin, Brandon Jennings, Monta Ellis... and of course the old standards, Paul, Williams, and Parker. And I forgot about Derrick Rose.

How many good big men are there? The ones we point to are a joke compared to past eras... Anderson V. and Ibaka are okay, one rebounds like crazy, the other blocks everything, but both are hardly standouts. You have Bynum and Dwight both absent, one literally the other figuratively; Love, Griffin, Lopez, and Randolph are very good big men, but aren't impactful on defense. Duncan and KG are aging. Who's on the horizon? You can't just go out and get a big man like you can a guard.

Now that said, even from what little of Kyrie I've seen, I'd take him over almost any guard out there. I'd be tempted even to take him over Westbrook and Paul. Probably wouldn't, but I'd have to think about it.

Last edited by Clifton : 12-12-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:32 PM   #27
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenleomessi
both are still raw and have many holes in their game
i would probably go with davis because he is a big

What are the holes in kyrie game? He might have the most complete offensive pg out of any of in the league, and he's not that bad defensively. As a rookie he was very polished look at his %'s
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #28
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Kyrie.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:10 PM   #29
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FKAri
Two people can spend an equal amount of time working on the same thing yet one can come out ahead of the other. Potential is not limited to athletic traits. There are alot of mechanical skills as well as mental ones that some are naturally more talented in. The combination of that talent with physical talent = potential.
I agree , but to a lesser degree.

Kidd improved his seems not improvable shooting ( as the best pg and main dog he lead team to finals and 3 + years shot under 40%) Mechanical

No body saw Dirk get his iso post and driving ability when he first played( first few years he s not a star, plays soft and he just shots) Mental

When MJ first comes around he is selfish, bad at shooting, so so defense. Both.

Its rare and it happens people can improve mechanically or mentally. but not physically, thats their hard ceiling. but most people wont even reach their soft ceiling.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving vs Anthony Davis: Who has the higher ceiling?

Probably Anthony Davis because without a higher ceiling in his home, he could bump his head.
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