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Old 12-12-2012, 02:22 AM   #16
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Looks like we will just have to go with the flow. Hope things get better if and when Nash returns. No way the Lakers fire this guy too lol.. I have a gut feeling they are going to give Mike rest of the season to figure it out or they will make a rushed move and trade Gasol in early March at the last minute. Most likely it will be the latter

Get ready for more Laker drama, ladies & gentlemen! Typical Lakers, huh? Never too far from drama
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:14 AM   #17
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

For the past two weeks I was completely against the preconceived notion that "when Nash comes back, everything will be fine". I thought it was the stupidest thing to add. For example, I would ask myself "Nash has never been a defensive player, how can he possibly set things back into place?"

Then a thought came to me. One of the golden rules when we were all kids was "A good defense is a good offense". Its true.

Then I started thinking the other way. "A good offense is a good defense". That makes a lot of sense as well.

Think about some factors here with a healthy Nash:

1) If he picks up where he left off when he was with the D'Antoni coached suns, his assist to turnover ratio would be off the charts as always.

2) For every well executed play that leads to a basket, the lakers can have the time to run back on defense and man their positions.

3) Nash will create opportunities for other players, which will in turn, limit Kobe's offensive production. This is a good thing. The lakers are 1-10 this year when Kobe goes big during games. Its not to say that its bad when he scores, but when he has to try to take over games, it means something is not right with the rest of the team. If the rest of the team's offensive production increases, Kobe will have to do less. Then he can play a bit more defense, which he has been sucking in this season and last.

4) Nash is another 3 point shooter that will stretch the defense just a bit more than Duhon was able to. (By the way I believe Duhon has done a splendid job).

The times we have seen D'Antoni win was when he had a good point guard that loved his system. This happened twice with Nash and Jeremy Lin.

Indeed if Nash comes back healthy, our problems may indeed be solved.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

I would say this though, Lakerfreak. The Lakers currently have enough good players so Kobe shouldn't have to take over a ball game. Kobe and Howard should be enough to get a team into the playoffs. Regardless of Nash taking pressure off of those guys, the Lakers still have guys who need to step up and play like they should. I especially want to see more out of Howard. It's not necessarily his fault. It's a coach that doesn't know how to use a real C.

Sure Morris and Duhon aren't the greatest outside shooters. It's also just like you said though.... those guys haven't played that bad. Sure Nash will run the offense better, but it's not going to be a night and day difference. The Lakers were losing with Nash already this year..... Obviously, they're a better ball club with him in the lineup. It's not like he can completely turn things around though. Watching these games it doesn't look like the Lakers are a player short. This team doesn't even look like they could make the playoffs. It's the system. 'antoni needs to suck it up and for once in his career coach to his players strengths.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:48 AM   #19
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

What i saw last night was horrible. the whole team isnt playing any defense. Howard is just pretending and Kobe isnt even trying. single posessions dont count. they arent talking on D at all.

The Lakers were in striking distance over the last 7 minutes, but they couldnt get two stops in a row (giving up layups and wide open 3s). and no, the Cavs werent running like crazy, the Lakers couldnt stop them in the half court game.

The offense looked like 5 guys doing what they want. i cant see any system or plays. even the basic ones. Nash will help there, but that will only help to get into the playoffs and wont work against contenders because you cant beat them without defense.

and PLEASE can someone tell MWP to stop taking the toughest shot in basketball! everytime he takes a one dribble pull up/fade away long 2 or 3 i want to punch him and the coach.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:33 AM   #20
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...6095--nba.html

'Antoni: "Yeah we worked on defense, we worked on defense for a half hour."

Are you freaking kidding me? If this was my team it would've been at least 2 hours.....I don't mean running around, it would be explaining rotations, walking through rotations, explaining strategy and philosophy, answering questions.....making sure everyone was on the same page.
I have had 2 hour practices on rebounding alone......these type practices always get the desired results. A 30 minute session is a gdamn joke!!!!!

Near the end of the game last night.....I think we were down 5 with 35 seconds left and Metta shoots a 3 from the top, as he releases it the entire team runs back on defense........this made me very angry. In that situation we should've had at least 3 guys crashing the boards to get a 2nd chance at it......we were going to have to foul anyway if he missed, and 1 guy could've done that by himself.....it was really our only chance to win. Running away was 100% quit and that comes from poor coaching.....I see stuff like this all game. Our rebounding numbers look good but they are not if you know the game and see all the situational screwups and failed box-outs.

Sure, Nash will hit his shots and run the offense blah, blah, blah......but offense doesn't create defense, nor help defense.....no matter what we score we give opponents easy shots, inside and outside....guys have no clue where to go because it isn't taught, they are all just winging it......we have no chance to win with this coach.....and NO at his age he will never change.
He cannot coach well enough to close out games.

As for this running offense....In my experience a running offense leads to a resting defense. Looking at the Lakers lack of getting back on defense it is clearly because they are expending too much energy on offense and the pace is too fast....guys are tired. Look at the 2nd half of games and how many times there are at least 3 guys behind the ball when it is being brought up the floor....they are resting. We need to spend less energy on the offensive end and attack at the defensive end.....that is the formula for championship basketball. If you attack on defense then guys can't get into a groove....as you see now, guys are having huge nights against us because we put no pressure on them. 'Antoni's approach has always been the wrong one.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:06 PM   #21
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Here's another tidbit for you to think about; Stealing minutes......It's one thing to play at an extremely fast pace when your starters are all out there......and quite a different thing to do it with your bench guys out there.
Lets say the guys need a 5 minute break but the opponent has all their starters....or key starters on the floor, they are very likely to win that battle....so if you slow the pace down on offense, it will definitely mean fewer possessions and less damage taken.....throughout an NBA game this can mean 10 fewer points for the opponent. In AAU ball a master clock managing coach is worth about 20 points with either no clock or 35 sec clock.

Problem with the Lakers is that 'Antoni is a one trick pony, he only has 1 style and 1 speed.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:40 PM   #22
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Now hold on a second there DK, you called out MB for having 4 hour practices. You said all of Phil's were less than an hour. Now you're knocking on D'Antoni for having defense practices for half an hour?

IMO, with a team full of players that know HOW to play D, you don't agree half an hour is a good amount for a team full of veterans?

What do you want from a veteran team?
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:49 PM   #23
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
Now hold on a second there DK, you called out MB for having 4 hour practices. You said all of Phil's were less than an hour. Now you're knocking on D'Antoni for having defense practices for half an hour?

IMO, with a team full of players that know HOW to play D, you don't agree half an hour is a good amount for a team full of veterans?

What do you want from a veteran team?

What you failed to read was that I was NOT saying have the guys RUN around for 2 hours, I said work on defense strategy and team defense philosophy.....a large part of which can be done in a walkthrough, this allows players to absorb and ask questions better, once they understand then you scrimmage it to see how they perform and if something is not right you yell freeze and explain to the person where they should be and why. This doesn't take much physical energy but works miracles for a defense.

MB's practices were 100% nonsense, he could talk for 1,000 hours and never make any sense, he is an idiot.

I never said Phil's practices were 1 hour, I said Jerry Sloan's practices were only 45 minutes....and by the 47th minute he was in his car......but the man got more done in 45 minutes than 'Antoni or Brown could get done in a season.
Phil's practice length varied widely.

What is so hard for you to understand about team defense? It doesn't matter how good a group of players are at individual defense if they don't know what their teammates are doing.....what the hell do you think happens when someone sets a screen or pick if your teammate doesn't know what he is supposed to be doing....you can't just simply stay on your man......and what about help defenders......someone picks up your guy you pick up theirs....but if the coach isn't sure about wtf he's doing then this message isn't being given........what about not leaving the hot shooter....or when to close him out or deny the ball? There are a ton of things involved in team defense......dude, please read some books or something.....you gotta get up to speed.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:35 PM   #24
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
What you failed to read was that I was NOT saying have the guys RUN around for 2 hours, I said work on defense strategy and team defense philosophy.....a large part of which can be done in a walkthrough, this allows players to absorb and ask questions better, once they understand then you scrimmage it to see how they perform and if something is not right you yell freeze and explain to the person where they should be and why. This doesn't take much physical energy but works miracles for a defense.

MB's practices were 100% nonsense, he could talk for 1,000 hours and never make any sense, he is an idiot.

I never said Phil's practices were 1 hour, I said Jerry Sloan's practices were only 45 minutes....and by the 47th minute he was in his car......but the man got more done in 45 minutes than 'Antoni or Brown could get done in a season.
Phil's practice length varied widely.

What is so hard for you to understand about team defense? It doesn't matter how good a group of players are at individual defense if they don't know what their teammates are doing.....what the hell do you think happens when someone sets a screen or pick if your teammate doesn't know what he is supposed to be doing....you can't just simply stay on your man......and what about help defenders......someone picks up your guy you pick up theirs....but if the coach isn't sure about wtf he's doing then this message isn't being given........what about not leaving the hot shooter....or when to close him out or deny the ball? There are a ton of things involved in team defense......dude, please read some books or something.....you gotta get up to speed.


I understand your point better about the first three paragraphs. It makes sense.

Now its my turn :)

You didn't understand what I was making of the 30 minutes. If a team has good defenders on it, I am saying it may only need 30 minutes to address a certain system. If these guys are smart, and the defensive scheme actually works, it would be easier for these guys to pick it up. These players aren't idiots anyways. 30 minutes should be sufficient if it is addressing how to stop certain players from getting their way. Does that make sense?
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
I understand your point better about the first three paragraphs. It makes sense.

Now its my turn :)

You didn't understand what I was making of the 30 minutes. If a team has good defenders on it, I am saying it may only need 30 minutes to address a certain system. If these guys are smart, and the defensive scheme actually works, it would be easier for these guys to pick it up. These players aren't idiots anyways. 30 minutes should be sufficient if it is addressing how to stop certain players from getting their way. Does that make sense?

No, if you don't already have a strong system in place that the players already know then 30 minutes is useless, it takes weeks of committed practice....at least an hour per day with a good defensive coach.
Now if you're talking about a team with a great system and players who are running the system near perfection then a minor tweak can be added in 30 minutes...but I personally would give it an hour.....I am dead serious about defense and rebounding....even my PG's are dominant rebounders.

Think about this.....'Antoni is clueless when it comes to defense, do you honestly think that he can spew forth anything useful in 30 minutes????

BTW....wasn't it a great laugh to see Luke Walton on the bench......talk about a fking scrub.....if anyone signs him when his contract is up I'll be beyond shocked.

Last edited by DKLaker : 12-12-2012 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Was really disappointed from the start when the Lakers flirted with Phil only to bring in Pringles.

This just isn't a Mike Antoni Style team, and he has only 1 guy(Nash) that knows his offense. Mike likes to play fast paced, run and gun. 4 out of 5 of the Laker Starters are over 30 years old, and their Center just came off back surgery. And Mike also likes spreading the floor with many 3 point shooters, the Lakers don't have any good 3 point specialists, well other than Nash or Meeks. Problem with Mike is that he can't adapt to the roster he has.

Just an awful hire all around for the Lakers. As terrible as Mike Brown is, they were probably better off with Mike Brown and his slower, more deliberate pace considering the talent on the roster. Or better yet, just not waste money on a coach at all. Bernie was doing a fine job before Mike DAntoni stepped in. Weren't the Lakers like 4-1 that period with Bernie?

Tbh, don't even think Phil can save their season at this point.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:09 AM   #27
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat Like A Bosh
Was really disappointed from the start when the Lakers flirted with Phil only to bring in Pringles.

This just isn't a Mike Antoni Style team, and he has only 1 guy(Nash) that knows his offense. Mike likes to play fast paced, run and gun. 4 out of 5 of the Laker Starters are over 30 years old, and their Center just came off back surgery. And Mike also likes spreading the floor with many 3 point shooters, the Lakers don't have any good 3 point specialists, well other than Nash or Meeks. Problem with Mike is that he can't adapt to the roster he has.

Just an awful hire all around for the Lakers. As terrible as Mike Brown is, they were probably better off with Mike Brown and his slower, more deliberate pace considering the talent on the roster. Or better yet, just not waste money on a coach at all. Bernie was doing a fine job before Mike DAntoni stepped in. Weren't the Lakers like 4-1 that period with Bernie?

Tbh, don't even think Phil can save their season at this point.

I never for 1 second thought they would even interview 'Antoni......but when I heard they were interviewing Dumbleavy, I knew then were were in serious trouble and Jimmy was in control. Yeah you are 100% correct that Bernie was much much better.....and he's no great coach himself......or maybe he has improved?

I think if they brought in Phil by the 1st week of January we could actually pull it off........gotta remember that this would be his most talented Lakers team....arguably the most overall talented team he has ever had.
Right now it's the only shot we have this year, next year, year after.......so they have to try to buy out 'Antoni.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:04 PM   #28
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
lol is this an actual quote?

BTW I have a thread up in the nba discussion forum talking about d'antoni, the lakers half-court strengths and how mike is ruining the team by running it half the time. I welcome any of you fellow laker fans to add input into the thread if you feel like you have something to contribute.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=283850
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueandGold
lol is this an actual quote?

BTW I have a thread up in the nba discussion forum talking about d'antoni, the lakers half-court strengths and how mike is ruining the team by running it half the time. I welcome any of you fellow laker fans to add input into the thread if you feel like you have something to contribute.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=283850

I'm not sure it is an actual quote but I have definitely heard him say things to that effect many, many times. There seems to be some sort of detachment in his brain that doesn't allow him to acknowledge defense......and if you look at the quotes from former players about his defense you really get more understanding of how bad the situation is........Damn you Jimmy Buss!!!!!
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:02 PM   #30
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
I'm not sure it is an actual quote but I have definitely heard him say things to that effect many, many times. There seems to be some sort of detachment in his brain that doesn't allow him to acknowledge defense......and if you look at the quotes from former players about his defense you really get more understanding of how bad the situation is........Damn you Jimmy Buss!!!!!

It makes you wonder about the Melo situation doesn't it? Did Melo really never play defense or was he in systems (with Karl and 'antoni) that didn't allow him to. He has been so far with Woodson. I guess we'll see what happens when the playoffs come around.
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