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Old 11-27-2012, 10:29 AM   #31
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

Quote:
Originally Posted by STATUTORY
ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

look at what happened to beasley smh
Cp3 is Nash alike. Totally difference
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:34 AM   #32
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

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Originally Posted by ripthekik
I am saying, the TEAM was good, it was built around him with talents including Varejao who haven't been recognized until recently. Lebron didn't really made his teammates better, they were already good, it just didn't seem so statistically because of the Lebron-dominant system they played in.

Most people simply give credit to Lebron as if he single handedly won 66 games and made his teammates great, which is not true.


You're contradicting yourself all the time.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:48 AM   #33
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

Quote:
Originally Posted by STATUTORY
ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

look at what happened to beasley smh

This. Except, I wouldn't put CP3 in that category. He is a pure point guard.

A shooter like Ray Allen (at his age, of course) can benefit from playing alongside Lebron, but any other star would suffer immensely, especially traditional big guys. Lebron's game does nothing for them, so I don't get people's bitching about their lack of centers. They continue to go out and sign shooters instead for a reason.

I also don't understand when people say that Lebron can be the best point guard in the league if he plays that position full time. Well, guess what, he already does! And the fact that he can't even average 10 assists per game tells you that he is not that effective at distributing the ball.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:53 AM   #34
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

Players do improve you know...
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:21 AM   #35
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

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Originally Posted by ripthekik
So does this debunk the myth spread by Lebron fans that Cleveland was scrub city? ONLY now after Lebron is gone, we start recognizing talent like Varejao who is an excellent rebounder and player.

Cavs back then had all-star talents like Varejao, and a lot of shooters and defensive player who fit the team well.

So why can't they win any games without Lebron with all that talent you claim they had/have?
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:24 AM   #36
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

Quote:
Originally Posted by STATUTORY
ball dominating players like Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul, never make their teammates better. they reduce them to spot up shooters or backdoor cutters or fastbreak finishers.

People conflate high assist numbers with being good teammate when in reality they are completely different things.

A young player like Blake Griffin probably is hurting his development as a complete NBA player playing next to Chris Paul. Real talk

look at what happened to beasley smh




Not true about Paul, but it's starting to be true this year. Last year, he made the players around him better. This year, not so much. Lebron and Wade are different. Lebron does make people better, but not to the extent people suggest. Making the play for someone does not make them better. Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd...they make people better. Look at the Denver game in Denver earlier this year. Lebron was great, but he wasn't making people better. I think people just like to say what sounds good.


Tho Varejao has greatly improved. Did Lebron hold him back? I don't know, but regardless he is better now than he was then.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:26 AM   #37
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

He made the Finals twice. Who cares what effect he has on Varejao's numbers? And another thing: What does Varejao's rebounding have to do with James? Stupid topic.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:29 AM   #38
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Not true about Paul, but it's starting to be true this year. Last year, he made the players around him better. This year, not so much. Lebron and Wade are different. Lebron does make people better, but not to the extent people suggest. Making the play for someone does not make them better. Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd...they make people better. Look at the Denver game in Denver earlier this year. Lebron was great, but he wasn't making people better. I think people just like to say what sounds good.


Tho Varejao has greatly improved. Did Lebron hold him back? I don't know, but regardless he is better now than he was then.

making players "better" is more about how you lead on and off the court. whether you help players develop as players by improving their work ethic, dimensions of their game etc. As well as giving those players the freedom to hone their skills in game situation.

Kobe has done more for his teammates than Lebron ever has.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:14 PM   #39
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

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Originally Posted by STATUTORY
making players "better" is more about how you lead on and off the court. whether you help players develop as players by improving their work ethic, dimensions of their game etc. As well as giving those players the freedom to hone their skills in game situation.

Kobe has done more for his teammates than Lebron ever has.



That's an intangible quality that you can't really measure.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:39 PM   #40
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

Making players better is the most cliche and overused term in basketball. There's no such thing as making players better, you can only make the game easier. Playing with a superstar is not going to magically add athleticism or fix a broken jumpshot. The term really just needs to stop being used in basketball vocabulary. And the whole premise of the OP has to be the stupidest way I've seen someone hate on Lebron.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:46 PM   #41
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

Reach for it....REACH FOR IT
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:57 PM   #42
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

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Originally Posted by plowking
So why can't they win any games without Lebron with all that talent you claim they had/have?
because they played in a system that was customized for lebron, they adapted their roles for him. once lebron left, the SYSTEM broke.

they also didn't win because they lost so many personnel, the team was gutted. they didn't lose lebron, they lost the central gear to their team. When you spend the last 7 years building your team around 1 player and he leaves suddenly.. it's going to take you a season or 2 to adjust.

Verajao was a rebounding, hustling machine who is an EXCELLENT player that every team would love to have. In the lebron system it seems like he has no skills and can only hustle. there's really no way another player can shine if they play in the same team as lebron, unless they're a shooter.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:14 PM   #43
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripthekik
because they played in a system that was customized for lebron, they adapted their roles for him. once lebron left, the SYSTEM broke.

they also didn't win because they lost so many personnel, the team was gutted. they didn't lose lebron, they lost the central gear to their team. When you spend the last 7 years building your team around 1 player and he leaves suddenly.. it's going to take you a season or 2 to adjust.

Verajao was a rebounding, hustling machine who is an EXCELLENT player that every team would love to have. In the lebron system it seems like he has no skills and can only hustle. there's really no way another player can shine if they play in the same team as lebron, unless they're a shooter.


Didn't BigZ and Mo Williams have "shining" years while Lebron's teammates? Both even made the all-star team, I believe.


Drew Gooden also had some of his highestt rebounding years while alongside Lebron, as well as point averages

Last edited by r15mohd : 11-27-2012 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:16 PM   #44
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripthekik
It's not like he was a rookie or something. Why is it he suddenly blossom into an Allstar the exact same year Lebron left, and now 1 year without Lebron, he is straight balling?


He goes into double digit in scoring and rebound AFTER Lebron left.

Also, let's look at guys like Wade, Bosh. Did Lebron make them better? Hell, Wade had a very good career as a top 3 player in the league when Lebron joined and what happened to him now? Bosh was his franchise's leader for 7 years, as soon as he leaves to Miami he is simply an star forward who gets disrespected

Look at all the clues here, guys. Why are all Lebron teams just a one-man team, consisting of him doing everything? Fact: Lebron doesn't make anyone better, he makes his stats look better, that's all.
You're slipping man. This is a horrible troll job.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:29 PM   #45
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Default Re: Does Lebron really make his teammates better? Varejao?

Scottie Pippen stats in 92-93 (with Jordan): 18.6 points, 6.3 assists, 7.7 rebounds, 2.1 steals on .510 TS.

Bulls record: 57-25

Scottie Pippen stats in 93-94 (without Jordan): 22 points, 5.6 assists, 8.7 rebounds, 2.9 steals on .544 TS

Bulls record: 55-27



Jordan didn't make his teammates better. Heck, looks like he was holding them back. The team did just as fine without him as they did with him and Pippen had a career year.
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