Thurmond might be a better 1v1 post defender, but he isn't as good overall. Russell was the first anchor in the middle. He's the best.
I don't have either Wilt or Thurmond in the top 5 defensive centers. Neither of them is better than Russell, Hakeem, Robinson, Walton, or Dwight Howard.
Thurmond might be a better 1v1 post defender, but he isn't as good overall. Russell was the first anchor in the middle. He's the best.
I don't have either Wilt or Thurmond in the top 5 defensive centers. Neither of them is better than Russell, Hakeem, Robinson, Walton, or Dwight Howard.
I agree with your earlier statement, but not so much the latter. Particularly when Wilt Chamberlain did perform the Russell role quite well on those great 70s lakers teams according to witnesses.
Also correct. But he was the second-best of the era though, as contemporaries attested to, which is nothing to be ashamed of.
Sorta OT, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Walton's defense? I'm trying to decide whether—even with only a few non-injured seasons—he belongs in my top 10 defenders list (for the other thread).
No, Russell was one of the best team defenders of all time. I grew up in the 90s and even i can CLEARLY tell that by what little tape there is of Russell (mostly championship games). Russell was and is one of the greatest defenders of all time, and arguably one of the most cerebral. You don't just win 11 championships, 2 as a player coach, for no reason.
I agree with your earlier statement, but not so much the latter. Particularly when Wilt Chamberlain did perform the Russell role quite well on those great 70s lakers teams according to witnesses.
Care to explain?
You mean Wilt not being one of the 5 best defensive centers? If that's what you're asking, then it just comes down to there being a lot of guys. I have Wilt #6 and I thought about leaving Dwight off. But the truth is I think Dwight is the best space-eater I've ever seen and I think he's probably better than anyone, bar Russell. But I'm not willing to go that far yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r
Correct.
Also correct. But he was the second-best of the era though, as contemporaries attested to, which is nothing to be ashamed of.
Would he make your top 10 all-time defenders (not just centers)?
Wilt Chamberlain was famous for using the needle on guys, and if that quote came after Russell's outrageous comments made from the safety of retirement, then there's no telling what he really thought.
I think Thurmond is right when he talked on this subject years ago.... he was able to play Chamberlain so well because he practiced against him every day when they were on the Warriors; and he was able to play Kareem so well because he'd already fought Chamberlain for so many years. I don't think Thurmond was better than Russell.
Wilt better defense than Russell? Chamberlain was an offensive force that has so far seen only one equal. That fact has to be accounted for when you consider how much energy it takes to excel on defense. After he blew out his knee in '70 and shifted his focus to almost pure defense, Chamberlain was better than the Bill Russell that I saw. I can't compare him to Russell's best days which was early 60s.
It's also not a fair comparison in another way and this is just an opinion based on old memories and thoughts more than watching any tape recently... but I believe Russell used non-stop running as one of the cornerstones of his defense. Those Celtics teams lived for transition ball. Bill Russell didn't just get the rebound and throw an outlet pass. By no means.
He flat ran guys into the dirt.
Chamberlain & Thurmond > Russell Defensively
