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Old 11-25-2012, 11:17 PM   #31
StateOfMind12
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Kobe's defense has been incredibly inconsistent since 2009. It reached liability standards in 2011 though.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:29 PM   #32
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Kobe = GOAT perimeter defender and easily top 10 defender all-time.

If you don't believe me, look at how many 1st team All-Defenses he has. Not to mention, big men are only considered better and higher impact defenders because they're taller and play closer to the basket where they can rack up blocks.

More or less something OP said in a different Kobe thread he created either today or last night. He starts at least one new Kobe thread per day so I forget when it was, exactly.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:23 AM   #33
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAClipsFan33
The real reason why he has 9 1st Team All Defensive Awards is that it has become a very sad popularity contest

the NBA coaches don't vote for the all-defensive teams anymore?
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:03 AM   #34
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

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Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
the NBA coaches don't vote for the all-defensive teams anymore?

Yes they do. Popularity contest never the less. Even coaches are not immune to the media hype machine
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:12 AM   #35
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
First Team All Defensive players put it all out there 100% of the time. The Hakeem Olajuwons, David Robinson, Scottie Pippens. Kobe Bryant was always inconsistent and lazy unless it was a "big marquee game".

Depends on the year.

In 2011, he didn't deserve it. Tony Allen did.

In 2010, Duncan didn't deserve it. Andrew Bogut did.

Last edited by Micku : 11-26-2012 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:19 AM   #36
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAClipsFan33
Yes they do. Popularity contest never the less. Even coaches are not immune to the media hype machine

And let me guess the phenomenon of superstar players getting the nod over no name role players for all defensive teams began and will end with Kobe Bryant.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:19 AM   #37
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

one of the greatest to ever do it. constantly disrespected. constantly overlooked. constantly underrated.

there is rarely a stat for it. it is measured by watching games. there isn't always a steal. there isn't always a block. but theres always great foot work.

the most unappreciated kind of defender. it requires more talent than a big man due to handchecking rules being 100 times more constant on the perimeter

just watch the video and understand why he has 9 first team all defensive awards. the most in nba history

LOL the most overrated defender of all time.

Funny you mention it, but even the very first play of the video Van Gundy states that when "he wants too" he's a great defender. I don't deny that, but he doesn't want too often enough, and his lack of interest and mistakes outweigh his moment of brief intensity. There's also a flip side to his brief encounter with wanting to play defense, and that's him getting beat due to his aggressiveness. It's almost comical whenever he stares and makes those stupid faces and then gets beat with ease due to his overzealousness.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:23 AM   #38
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
And let me guess the phenomenon of superstar players getting the nod over no name role players for all defensive teams began and will end with Kobe Bryant.

It's not just Kobe. If your popular and you can play decent D your in...so help me Chris Paul. I'll be damned if he's ever been the best defensive PG
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:28 AM   #39
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAClipsFan33
It's not just Kobe. If your popular and you can play decent D your in...so help me Chris Paul. I'll be damned if he's ever been the best defensive PG

or Michael Jordan or Larry Bird or Jerry West or Lebron James or any other legend whom Kobe is compared to

To single out Kobe for getting a superstar bias in all defensive team voting is to act like that bias does not predate Kobe or to act like Kobe is the only superstar in league history.

But please go ahead and carry on about Thabo's 20 mins of awesome defense a game being robbed of an award that he would never win in any era.

Last edited by Yao Ming's Foot : 11-26-2012 at 02:41 AM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:15 AM   #40
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Too old. doesn't really try until it matters in his mind.

Lebron going down the same road, no way in hell does he deserve to be all defensive ahead of guys like Smith and Iguodala.

You have to wonder how Chris Paul keeps making these teams too, he's on the lower spectrum point guard defenders (which is ovverated in the league today) even when he tries.

At least Kobe and Lebron are elite when they try.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:19 AM   #41
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol

Lebron going down the same road, no way in hell does he deserve to be all defensive ahead of guys like Smith and Iguodala.

Interesting, since Lebron holds his opponents to lower overall production than both of those guys.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:36 AM   #42
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Kobe used to be a very good defender (though not as spectacular as his accolades suggest).
Now he's become a liability. And it's not because he's old or slow, strangely enough it's because he doesn't seem to try anymore and makes simple mental mistakes, often forgetting where his opponent is.

Incidentally, I would say off the ball defense is both more important and more unappreciated than on the ball defense.
Losing track of a player you're supposed to guard, not contesting the passing lane, gambling and allowing him to make a backdoor cut, rotating to the wrong player, not rotating at all, not hedging on pick'n'rolls for big men... Those kill teams.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:36 AM   #43
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Kobe is a ridiculously overrated defender who constantly forgets his man, is clueless on spacing, makes dumb mistakes all the time (and then yells on his teammate when he's the one screwing up).

But anyway Kobe fans are like religious fanatics, the more they hear the truth the more they try to ignore it so...yeah keep living in your dream world.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:39 AM   #44
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

If anyone really thinks that Kobe Bryant really earned all those 1st All defensive first teams they need their head examined.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:18 PM   #45
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Default Re: on ball perimeter defense: the most unappreciated aspect of basketball stat geeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAClipsFan33
This.

I watch about 40-50 games though

doesn't matter how many games you watch

if you don't know what you're looking at

now let's see . . . . . . nba coaches, or

.

.

.

you
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