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Old 11-25-2012, 10:09 PM   #61
jalbert009
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

No love for Michael cooper?

5 NBA champion (1980, 1982, 1985, 19871988)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1987)
5 NBA All-Defensive First Team (1982, 19841985, 19871988)
3 NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1981, 1983, 1986)
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:13 PM   #62
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

These are the 10 best defenders ive seen based on 3 categories (interior, perimeter and allround/versatility)

Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikembe Mutombo and David Robinson (there is a couple of more equally good paint defenders i feel i could replace their names with) i have to include because thats the best interior defense ive seen...

Gary Payton, Michael Jordan, Ron Artest and Bruce Bowen i have to include because they are the best perimeter defenders ive seen (in their prime ofcourse), ridicilous lateral quickness, hands, anticipation, relentless... simple as that.

Scottie Pippen, Lebron James and Dennis Rodman i have to include because they are by far the most versatile defenders ive seen, sure they were not the best interior defenders or perimeter defenders (Scottie has a case on that end tho) but when you combine their perimeter/interior and any type of defense (insane versatility as a result) was there anybody better overall/allround defenders that way and was there anybody who could do the things they did defensively (like lets say, defend up to five/all positions)? Think about it.

Last edited by pauk : 11-25-2012 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:24 PM   #63
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by oolalaa
Why Pippen over Ewing?

Hmmm, upon further thought perhaps I should swap them...here are the z-scores for their teams' DRtgs (relative to the league each season):

Pippen:

87-88: -1.0
88-89: -0.9
89-90: +0.3
90-91: -1.0
91-92: -1.5
92-93: -0.7
93-94: -1.0
94-95: -1.4
95-96: -1.9
97-97: -1.2
97-98: -1.4
98-99: +0.2
99-00: -1.0
00-01: -0.4
01-02: -0.2
02-03: -0.4
03-04: +0.6

Ewing:

85-86: -0.7
86-87: +1.1
87-88: -0.6
88-89: -0.1
89-90: -0.0
90-91: -0.2
91-92: -1.6
92-93: -2.9
93-94: -2.3
94-95: -1.6
95-96: -1.3
96-97: -1.5
97-98: -1.3
98-99: -1.2
99-00: -1.0
00-01: +0.9
01-02: +0.3

offhand I figured the difference was a lot closer, and planned to give it to Pip on the basis of versatility, but I think I need to switch them on my list. The only question is whether I need to bump Pippen down a tier (joining Rodman), or whether he can remain there.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:33 PM   #64
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller for 3
Anyone that doesn't have David Robinson in their top 10 should be banned.

No shit. I saw Mutombo at 5th on someone's list and they even had honorable mentions and Robinson was nowhere to be seen. David Robinson shits all over Mutombo as a defensive player. It isn't even relatively close.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:41 PM   #65
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
Hmmm, upon further thought perhaps I should swap them...here are the z-scores for their teams' DRtgs (relative to the league each season):

Pippen:

87-88: -1.0
88-89: -0.9
89-90: +0.3
90-91: -1.0
91-92: -1.5
92-93: -0.7
93-94: -1.0
94-95: -1.4
95-96: -1.9
97-97: -1.2
97-98: -1.4
98-99: +0.2
99-00: -1.0
00-01: -0.4
01-02: -0.2
02-03: -0.4
03-04: +0.6

Ewing:

85-86: -0.7
86-87: +1.1
87-88: -0.6
88-89: -0.1
89-90: -0.0
90-91: -0.2
91-92: -1.6
92-93: -2.9
93-94: -2.3
94-95: -1.6
95-96: -1.3
96-97: -1.5
97-98: -1.3
98-99: -1.2
99-00: -1.0
00-01: +0.9
01-02: +0.3

offhand I figured the difference was a lot closer, and planned to give it to Pip on the basis of versatility, but I think I need to switch them on my list. The only question is whether I need to bump Pippen down a tier (joining Rodman), or whether he can remain there.


88-92' probably had more to do with Jordan's defense than it did Pippen's - especially 88'. He was the defensive floor general and the team's best defender up until that point. 94' and 95' are arguably the two most impressive defensive seasons by a perimeter player ever though.

We also need to take into account the help that each player had. Pippen certainly had a lot of help early on with Jordan/Grant, and then later on with Jordan/Rodman/Harper, but Ewing probably still had the better end of that deal. Some of those Knicks teams had solid to great defenders at virtually every position.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:46 PM   #66
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatAsh
88-92' probably had more to do with Jordan's defense than it did Pippen's - especially 88'. He was the defensive floor general and the team's best defender up until that point. 94' and 95' are arguably the two most impressive defensive seasons by a perimeter player ever though.

Agreed on all counts.

We also need to take into account the help that each player had. Pippen certainly had a lot of help early on with Jordan/Grant, and then later on with Jordan/Rodman/Harper, but Ewing probably still had the better end of that deal. Some of those Knicks teams had solid to great defenders at virtually every position.

Also true.

So given my criteria then, perhaps I should bump him down into the final tier. I also need to reevaluate Ben Wallace's impact, and decide what to do about Rodman.

BTW what are your thoughts on Kareem/Walton?
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:09 PM   #67
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

That I've seen since 1990:

Jordan
Pippen
Payton
Garnett
Hakeem
Rodman
Dumars
Duncan
Mutombo
D Robinson
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:22 AM   #68
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. Scottie Pippen
3. Dennis Rodman
4. Kevin Garnett
5. LeBron James
6. Tim Duncan
7. Ben Wallace
8. David Robinson
9. Dwight Howard
10. Michael Jordan

(Not in order)
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:05 AM   #69
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
I don't understand why people refuse to rank the best defenders without splitting them into different categories, and yet people are perfectly happy to rank the best players ever irrespective of position.

So what difference does it make if we're looking at just the defensive end?

That's a good question.

I think it just depends on the player.

Players like Magic Johnson and Larry Bird impact the offense very differently than Michael Jordan, Kobe, Iverson and Lebron. And Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, and Ewing impact the game differently than those guys too.

It's something that does not get talked about much. My guess is that defense is easier to separate than offense. Offense is more how many points can you score and defense is easier to see the different valuables in how it impacts the game.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:14 AM   #70
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

At their best days(ordered by alphabetically);
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Patrick Ewing
Dikembe Mutombo
Hakeem Olajuwon
David Robinson
Dennis Rodman
Bill Russell
Nate Thurmond
Ben Wallace
Bill Walton

The closest guard to make an impact of big man; Walt Frazier.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:01 AM   #71
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

@ multiple people picking LeBron when he was a defensive liability for the first half of his career.

This forum sucks.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:42 AM   #72
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doranku
@ multiple people picking LeBron when he was a defensive liability for the first half of his career.

This forum sucks.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:49 AM   #73
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Kobe is top 10
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:08 PM   #74
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Bigs: Rodman, Dream, Admiral, Duncan

Perimeter: Coop, Payton, Pippen
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:31 PM   #75
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doranku
@ multiple people picking LeBron when he was a defensive liability for the first half of his career.
Totally agree.

He was "meh" until the 2008 Olympics, and the following 2009 season.

He's a versatile defender, but his actual "lock down" man defense skills are horrendously overrated. Specifically since 2011.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Perimeter: Coop, Payton, Pippen
No Jordan? LOL ... right.
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