Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Best defensive players I saw:

Rodman
Moncrief
Hakeem
Duncan
Wallace (Ben)
Robinson
Mutombo
Payton
Pippen
Jordan

[JMT]

Bill Russell
Dikembe Mutombo
Wilt Chamberlain
Bobby Jones
Dennis Rodman
Kevin Garnett
Walt Frazier
Norm Van Lier
Gary Payton
Sidney Moncrief

Not really a 1 through 10 list. Tried to break up a bit by position.

[KG215]

Originally Posted by kennethgriffin

you can't rank defensive guards with centers

In other words, you (kennethgriffin) don't think you can rank guards with centers on a list like this because it means your lord and savoir Kobe Bryant won't be ranked in anyone's top 10.

I've got news for you...Kobe would be borderline top 10 on a lot of people's list if they did rank guards and bigs separately.

people will just rank mostly centers over guards because they think rebounding is part of defense and it makes them a better defender than a guard

also with blocks. when its actually bad defense to try and block an outside shooter

and steals are from playing mostly passing lanes as a roamer

guys who were great on both ends should get more credit than role players who used 100% energy on defense.

in his prime he was a lock down stopper. and its way harder to defend and score at the same time

and defensive teams should count

for instance. one person ranked kobe as not a top 10 defensive guard all time. and hes got the most all defensive 1st teams in nba history

[elementally morale]

Originally Posted by Colbertnation64

If you don't feel you can make a judgment correctly, then why would you even make an "all time" list.

These players I saw playing, so I feel I can list them. I refrain listing players pre 1980. Therefore, my list is not an all-time list, just a post 1980 list. I know it's arbitrary, but 1980 is the year I started watching any NBA games.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Originally Posted by kennethgriffin

you can't rank defensive guards with centers

people will just rank mostly centers over guards because they think rebounding is part of defense and it makes them a better defender than a guard

also with blocks. when its actually bad defense to try and block an outside shooter

and steals are from playing mostly passing lanes as a roamer

true defensive skills are measured by watching the games

and defensive teams should count

for instance. one person ranked kobe as not a top 10 defensive guard all time. and hes got the most all defensive 1st teams in nba history



in his prime he was a lock down stopper. and its way harder to defend and score at the same time

guys who were great on both ends should get more credit than role players who used 100% energy on defense.

I'm convinced this clown is a gimmick. There's no way he's not on Jeff's payroll.

[DatAsh]

In terms of impact

1. Bill Russell
2. Nate Thurmond
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. David Robinson
6. Ben Wallace
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Dennis Rodman
10. Dikembe Mutombo

I'm confident with the top 5, but not as much with 6-10.

I think it's very difficult for any perimeter defender to have the same defensive impact as big man who's protecting the paint. A perimeter defender would have to be comparatively much better by position to have equal impact. Taking that into consideration, I might say

1. Bill Russell
2. Dennis Rodman
3. Scottie Pippen
4. Nate Thurmond
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Michael Jordan
7. Sidney Moncrief
8. Gary Payton
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Walt Frazier

I'd would much prefer the first list though; it's more true to what I believe really matters - a player's overall impact - and I'm much less confident with the ordering of the second list. It's difficult to rank guards with big men, even with a positional handicap.

[KG215]

Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy

I'm convinced this clown is a gimmick. There's no way he's not on Jeff's payroll.

Blocks and rebounds are actually bad. Everyone knows that.

[iggy>]

Originally Posted by L.Kizzle

Shawn Marion should at least be on the short list.


but my top ten would be:

by position, it's too hard just doing a ten. I can narrow it to ten latter.


Center
1 Bill Russell
2 Wilt Chamberlain
3 Nate Thurmond
4 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Dikembe Mutombo
6 Lew Alcindor
7 Bill Walton
8 Ben Wallace
9 David Robinson
10 Alonzo Mourning



Forward
1 Dennis Rodman
2 Scottie Pippen
3 Kevin Garnett
4 Tim Duncan
5 Gus Johnson
6 Dave Debusschere
7 Michael Cooper
8 Ron Artest
9 Bobby Jones
10 Maurice Lucas


Guards
1 Walt Frazier
2 Sidney Moncrief
3 Gary Payton
4 Dennis Johnson
5 Michael Jordan
6 Norm Van Lier
7 Joe Dumars
8 K.C. Jones
9 Jerry West
10 Jason Kidd

where the hell is mo cheeks????

[kennethgriffin]

Originally Posted by KG215

Blocks and rebounds are actually bad. Everyone knows that.

rebounds are great. i'm just saying you get more when your a big man. and its totally different than offense or defense. its grabbing a basketball thats in the air. its niether stopping a guy from shooting or shooting over someone

its favored towards big men because theyre taller

so to just say someones a better defender because theyre taller and their position is beside the basket is kind of absurd


and blocks are verry usefull aswell. but its mainly a big mans game. you cant judge perimeter defense on blocks because coaches teach you not to try and block three point shooters or jump shooters because theyel bait you into the foul

contesting shots and staying infront of your defender is guard defense. and thats verry hard to measure in the box score other than the apposing team players points/fg%/turnovers

when it comes down to it you cannot compare big men to guards in terms of defense because its 2 completely different types of defense.

big men almost always win the DPOTY award because of this unfair advantage in recorded statistics and rebounding counting


when infact a guard who averages 6-7 rebounds is more impressive than a center who averages 9-10

and blocking a shot 2 times a game is not more valuable that stopping a great scorer from putting up 30 points


its actually harder to be a perimeter defender because the best scorers are guards/small forwards

[L.Kizzle]

Originally Posted by iggy>

where the hell is mo cheeks????

In the next group of guards with Alvin Robertson, Mookie Blaylock, Derek Harper, Jerry Sloan and Kobe.

[KG215]

Originally Posted by kennethgriffin

its favored towards big men because theyre taller

And?

so to just say someones a better defender because theyre taller and their position is beside the basket is kind of absurd

and blocking a shot 2 times a game is not more valuable that stopping a great scorer from putting up 30 points

It's sad that you actually think the reason big men are considered better defenders is because of blocked shots.

You can't be a real person. Or, at the very least, this has to be some alternate internet persona of yours that you slip into from time to time to have some fun with morons like me who get sucked in by your stupidity.

Saying you're stupid would be a huge insult to stupid people.

[oolalaa]

Originally Posted by kennethgriffin

rebounds are great. i'm just saying you get more when your a big man. and its totally different than offense or defense. its grabbing a basketball thats in the air. its niether stopping a guy from shooting or shooting over someone

its favored towards big men because theyre taller

so to just say someones a better defender because theyre taller and their position is beside the basket is kind of absurd


and blocks are verry usefull aswell. but its mainly a big mans game. you cant judge perimeter defense on blocks because coaches teach you not to try and block three point shooters or jump shooters because theyel bait you into the foul

contesting shots and staying infront of your defender is guard defense. and thats verry hard to measure in the box score other than the apposing team players points/fg%/turnovers

when it comes down to it you cannot compare big men to guards in terms of defense because its 2 completely different types of defense.

big men almost always win the DPOTY award because of this unfair advantage in recorded statistics and rebounding counting


when infact a guard who averages 6-7 rebounds is more impressive than a center who averages 9-10

and blocking a shot 2 times a game is not more valuable that stopping a great scorer from putting up 30 points


its actually harder to be a perimeter defender because the best scorers are guards/small forwards

What a clown

[DatAsh]

Originally Posted by kennethgriffin

its favored towards big men because theyre taller

Not all things in life are fair. Height is a huge factor in why big men are usually better defenders than guards, but such is life.

when infact a guard who averages 6-7 rebounds is more impressive than a center who averages 9-10

You bring up an interesting point here. It's related to a question I've asked on here before, but for which I really didn't get a response. What helps a team more: a pg who grabs 7 rebounds a game, or a center who grabs 9 rebounds a game? Is the center even helping his team at all?

[Miller for 3]

Anyone that doesn't have David Robinson in their top 10 should be banned.

[ThaRegul8r]

Originally Posted by WillC

Why are you so angry?

I'm not angry. If you would single me out, then apparently you don't read many threads on here.

Originally Posted by WillC

That's your second negative post in this thread.

I haven't said anything negative, I've only stated fact. You actually acknowledged my first point, and somehow bringing attention to an overlooked NBA great is perceived as negative. Interesting. (Also interesting that you've chosen to comment on me rather than other posts in this very thread.) But that's why I rarely discuss NBA history here anymore.

It's also interesting in that my second post wasn't even in reply to anything you wrote, unlike me first post, yet you felt compelled to reply to it. The interesting question is why.

Originally Posted by WillC

You talk as if you know everything and others know nothing.

Nice strawman. I said nothing of the sort. Other people's insecurities are none of my concern.

Originally Posted by WillC

I'm well aware of Thurmond's incredible defensive abilities.

If you're not one of the people who's overlooked Thurmond, then what exactly is your point? You were one of the few in this thread who even mentioned him. As previously aforementioned, my second post wasn't either in reply to or directed at you, yet for some reason you felt the need to say you're aware of Thurmond's defensive abilities when you already had him on your "short list." So I'm failing to see the purpose of this statement.

Originally Posted by WillC

I think you're the only one around here who is being disrespectful by assuming that others know less than you do.

I'm unsure why you feel so threatened or take so much offense to everything I say. Still, it's good to have where someone stands out in the open. Since my posts alone are unwelcome, if you wish me to discontinue posting in your thread, then I will oblige you. You shan't have to worry about seeing any more of my posts in any of your subjects.