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Old 11-12-2012, 06:33 PM   #31
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

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Originally Posted by ZenMaster
Maybe so, but there is a point to calling you and Stephen A out when trying to sell people on stats that are simply not true.

I am saying that the stats ARE true....but as with all stats, they do not tell the whole story.....this is why you have to watch the game and UNDERSTAND what you are seeing other than the obvious........this comes with experience.

We could go back and forth on this but the main point is that he doesn't believe in defense and runs a system that doesn't work in the NBA beyond the early rounds of the playoffs....and that is with personnel that fits his system.....we don't have players to fit his system.......too old, not enough shooters.

I'll say this, just as I did about Brown....I HOPE I am completely wrong and we win multiple championships....I would very happily take all the laughs and critique from you guys.....unfortunately I know better.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:53 PM   #32
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

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Originally Posted by DKLaker
I am saying that the stats ARE true....but as with all stats, they do not tell the whole story.....this is why you have to watch the game and UNDERSTAND what you are seeing other than the obvious........this comes with experience.

We could go back and forth on this but the main point is that he doesn't believe in defense and runs a system that doesn't work in the NBA beyond the early rounds of the playoffs....and that is with personnel that fits his system.....we don't have players to fit his system.......too old, not enough shooters.

I'll say this, just as I did about Brown....I HOPE I am completely wrong and we win multiple championships....I would very happily take all the laughs and critique from you guys.....unfortunately I know better.

I wasn't saying one thing or another, just that you are lying about the stats.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:00 PM   #33
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

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Originally Posted by ZenMaster
I wasn't saying one thing or another, just that you are lying about the stats.

Argumentative person aren't you Nobody was lying about the stats at all and I am not going to waste my time over such drivel, nor engage on meaningless name calling with someone who doesn't get the point.
Think what you want to think, learn what you want to learn.....or not I really don't care. Now if you actually have some basketball knowledge to share I will certainly listen
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

Mike D is much much better then potato head.

I think I will have to watch couple of games with Mike D to have an opinion of me.

The Suns were unlucky team...they could have won 1 if things went their way ...like they did for the mavs....

we shall see...

honestly its easy to say..give him part of the ownership/let him coach only homes games/ have him say on personals moves...but i personally dont like it...

Phil wanted Rush over Prince
May over bynum

I am still pissed but I totally understand where the lakers came from.

Freaking if spolstra can win championship....so can Mike D....

its players league and always will be....nash, Kobe having history with mike D also helps
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:05 PM   #35
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

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Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
Mike D is much much better then potato head.

I think I will have to watch couple of games with Mike D to have an opinion of me.

The Suns were unlucky team...they could have won 1 if things went their way ...like they did for the mavs....

we shall see...

honestly its easy to say..give him part of the ownership/let him coach only homes games/ have him say on personals moves...but i personally dont like it...

Phil wanted Rush over Prince
May over bynum

I am still pissed but I totally understand where the lakers came from.

Freaking if spolstra can win championship....so can Mike D....

its players league and always will be....nash, Kobe having history with mike D also helps

Coach Spo is not a good coach.....I agree BUT, at least he understands that you have to play both offense and defense....not just 1 of those. That is why 'Antoni is dangerous.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:34 PM   #36
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

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Originally Posted by DKLaker
Coach Spo is not a good coach.....I agree BUT, at least he understands that you have to play both offense and defense....not just 1 of those. That is why 'Antoni is dangerous.

hmm....there are already rumors that Nate McMilan will be coming along as a lead Assistant that will help

Also Steve Clifford(SVG asked MikeD to keep him around) & Chuck Persons might hang around too so we will see...

Media is fcuking clueless as we are...they are just like headless chicken's mutha fcuka's dont know anything....keep on saying...Phil, Phil & Phil

1 thing i learnt is take everything related to "Source" with a bag of salt
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:57 PM   #37
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Argumentative person aren't you Nobody was lying about the stats at all and I am not going to waste my time over such drivel, nor engage on meaningless name calling with someone who doesn't get the point.
Think what you want to think, learn what you want to learn.....or not I really don't care. Now if you actually have some basketball knowledge to share I will certainly listen

Saying nobody is lying about the stats is very thick skinned, I do get your point though.

Personally I think it can go either way.

IMO people who think the Lakers will play nearly as fast as his Phoenix teams did are wrong, he's toned it down since and it's not SSOL anymore, he's toned down the pace accordingly to his personnel and last year Knicks where the 4th slowest team in the regular season. A lot of the games he's being judged on are 5-6 years old, most coaches can develop quite a bit in that time frame hell I'm quite a better coach today than I was just 1 year ago.

I think it's a good sign he's looking into having someone else handling the defense for the most part, reports are one Mcmillan who's team have been pretty good in transition D which is a key for us.
Assistant coaches are some of the most underrated people in basketball, all responsibility is on the head coach but these guys spend just as much or more time with the players, having a strong figure with HC experience like Mcmillan is nice.

I think D'Antoni has pretty good half court offense, good sets that offer good chance for ball movement and spacing along with the pickn'roll he's good at teaching.

If we don't have the shooters we don't have the shooters, all the best playoff teams have good shooters and the last two champions just straight up bombed from distance even though they said you could never win from the 3pt line. We won't win the title on Dwight ISO post ups if he only shoots 50-60% from the line, players and the ball need to be moving and attacking.
D'Antonis system offers a good chance for shooters to be succesful, if Meeks, Jamison, Blake and Artest are going to clonk 3's they didn't other places in their career we aren't going to win no matter what sytem we run, not in 2013 NBA.
Artest haven't really shot well since his thumb injury but Meeks and Blake were very good 3pt shooters on other teams, Jamison has been okay as well, these guys have to pick up their shit on open shots because they will be getting them, throw Gasol in that mix he's also been missing too many open jumpers.

Last edited by ZenMaster : 11-12-2012 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:41 PM   #38
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

i dont get why they gave him a 4 year deal.... why not team options for the last 2 years like players get.

as for phil i am not sure of all the demands. maybe it was not to go to back to back road games i dont see how he could he ask to skip all of them. as for money give him a kicker for how deep into the play offs he gets. wins the champ give him the 12-15m it would have been worth it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:42 PM   #39
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
Media is fcuking clueless as we are...they are just like headless chicken's mutha fcuka's dont know anything....keep on saying...Phil, Phil & Phil

1 thing i learnt is take everything related to "Source" with a bag of salt

I think you might have a point there. If you watch espn, look at how nuts they are going over this. If somebody had no idea who Phil or D'Antoni or nba was, they would think that there is some huge major controversy going. It's obvious that they want to absolutely hype this up and juice it out..

Gotten to the point that some idiots in media manufactured this whole "Phil didn't want to coach any of the away games" and "wanted to control every Laker roster move" and "wanted part ownership" along with other garbage.... where the hell did all that come from?
Phil said they didn't even talk about contract specifics in the Jimmy/Mitch/Phil meeting on Saturday morning. Kurt Rambis also said neither of it is true and was never discussed. Phil's agent said that he went to LA on Sunday evening to negotiate the contract and said that neither of those two things were even talked about. The Lakers did NOT refute anything that Phil/Rambis/his agent said. If they were lying, wouldn't lakers have refuted it by now?

It's obviously somebody in the media made up that nonsense and they all started using it. What a joke.

Last edited by bladefd : 11-12-2012 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:46 PM   #40
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
Saying nobody is lying about the stats is very thick skinned, I do get your point though.

Personally I think it can go either way.

IMO people who think the Lakers will play nearly as fast as his Phoenix teams did are wrong, he's toned it down since and it's not SSOL anymore, he's toned down the pace accordingly to his personnel and last year Knicks where the 4th slowest team in the regular season. A lot of the games he's being judged on are 5-6 years old, most coaches can develop quite a bit in that time frame hell I'm quite a better coach today than I was just 1 year ago.

I think it's a good sign he's looking into having someone else handling the defense for the most part, reports are one Mcmillan who's team have been pretty good in transition D which is a key for us.
Assistant coaches are some of the most underrated people in basketball, all responsibility is on the head coach but these guys spend just as much or more time with the players, having a strong figure with HC experience like Mcmillan is nice.

I think D'Antoni has pretty good half court offense, good sets that offer good chance for ball movement and spacing along with the pickn'roll he's good at teaching.

If we don't have the shooters we don't have the shooters, all the best playoff teams have good shooters and the last two champions just straight up bombed from distance even though they said you could never win from the 3pt line. We won't win the title on Dwight ISO post ups if he only shoots 50-60% from the line, players and the ball need to be moving and attacking.
D'Antonis system offers a good chance for shooters to be succesful, if Meeks, Jamison, Blake and Artest are going to clonk 3's they didn't other places in their career we aren't going to win no matter what sytem we run, not in 2013 NBA.
Artest haven't really shot well since his thumb injury but Meeks and Blake were very good 3pt shooters on other teams, Jamison has been okay as well, these guys have to pick up their shit on open shots because they will be getting them, throw Gasol in that mix he's also been missing too many open jumpers.


Hey, Hey!!!!! FINALLY, real basketball conversation....quite good too!!!!
I was starting to think you didn't have it in you

Mike 'Antoni (No D) has been coaching a very long time....not just in the NBA, those are the type of guys who don't change their system...if he didn't really change all that time he is not going to change now.....sure to your point maybe he won't try to run as fast...because they can't....but he will definitely not have a defense that is worth a crap.....I don't care WHO the assistant coaches are, it's the head coach who tells them what to do....he, just like Brown doesn't listen to his assistants....one reason Brown lost most of his during the offseason. He has had players, owners, GMs beg him to work on defense and he refused, I cannot see him suddenly changing now.

Last year a ton of guys boasted about how Brown's assistant coaches were so good and were going to do this and that.......oh this guy is a defensive expert and that guy is a great offensive guy......and what happened.....NOTHING. i just flat out don't trust that this guy gets it, I see a guy who wants to prove everyone wrong....that his shoot quick no D CAN win a championship....this is how he wants to leave his mark on the game.
Other than him either coaching great D or at least saying that he is going to commit to defense and rebounding I will not change my views.
It's like someone thinking Phil Jackson would play rookies big minutes

Again, just as I said about Brown....I HOPE TO BE PROVEN WRONG
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:43 PM   #41
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Hey, Hey!!!!! FINALLY, real basketball conversation....quite good too!!!!
I was starting to think you didn't have it in you

Mike 'Antoni (No D) has been coaching a very long time....not just in the NBA, those are the type of guys who don't change their system...if he didn't really change all that time he is not going to change now.....sure to your point maybe he won't try to run as fast...because they can't....but he will definitely not have a defense that is worth a crap.....I don't care WHO the assistant coaches are, it's the head coach who tells them what to do....he, just like Brown doesn't listen to his assistants....one reason Brown lost most of his during the offseason. He has had players, owners, GMs beg him to work on defense and he refused, I cannot see him suddenly changing now.

Last year a ton of guys boasted about how Brown's assistant coaches were so good and were going to do this and that.......oh this guy is a defensive expert and that guy is a great offensive guy......and what happened.....NOTHING. i just flat out don't trust that this guy gets it, I see a guy who wants to prove everyone wrong....that his shoot quick no D CAN win a championship....this is how he wants to leave his mark on the game.
Other than him either coaching great D or at least saying that he is going to commit to defense and rebounding I will not change my views.
It's like someone thinking Phil Jackson would play rookies big minutes

Again, just as I said about Brown....I HOPE TO BE PROVEN WRONG

He agreed to having Woodson hired in New York and is now looking at Mcmillan, to me that sends a message he's willing to outsource the defense.
Chuck Pearson is also rumored to be staying, he was in charge of the defense the last year Phil was coaching.

It's also fair to consider what we can actually expect from this group of players defensively. If we can hit the open shots at a good rate I think this team should be 1st or 2nd offensively. But defensively what do you expect?
I know we have Dwight but people are old and just doesn't move as fast as they used to.
Last year under Brown the defensive specalist we had the 17th(!!!) ranked defense in the league and this year so far we're 14th.
So what can we realistically expect from these players?
I think if we can have a perhaps top 7-10 ranked defense and number 1 or 2 offense it would be a pretty strong combination, and I think there's a better chance of achieving that for this group of players than to say they have to form into an elite defensive unit when the potential isn't really there.
And just to clarify when I talk about offensive and defensive rankings I'm talking about effectiveness per possesion and not points total.

This team need needs good offense to have good defense, because when we miss shots and make turnovers(Lakers have an insane ammount of turnovers so far) the other team attacks in our weakest spot transition defense.

I think 'Antoni can get the optimal out of this group offensively, he got the same point guard albeit older, the best big man in the league and one of the best wing players ever, they will do great, take responsibility away from Artest so he doesn't have to make hard decisions, he's looked horrible in both the princeton and triangle because his mind can't process the decisions fast enough, also he can't dribble and have a hard time shooting, shit...he's tough to watch these days. I bet if Meeks can shoot like he did last year at 37 or so % he will get more time because he'll open things up considerably.

I could be wrong about all of this and we fail miserably, but I'm just trying to look at the possibilites from a positive point of view, it can't all be negative thoughts
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:25 PM   #42
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

I'm curious to see how Jamison will fit into all of this. He seemed a bit lost under Brown while playing at the 3( ). Could he be an option to open things up as a 4 along side Howard or when/if Pau ever plays center?
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladefd
I think you might have a point there. If you watch espn, look at how nuts they are going over this. If somebody had no idea who Phil or D'Antoni or nba was, they would think that there is some huge major controversy going. It's obvious that they want to absolutely hype this up and juice it out..

Gotten to the point that some idiots in media manufactured this whole "Phil didn't want to coach any of the away games" and "wanted to control every Laker roster move" and "wanted part ownership" along with other garbage.... where the hell did all that come from?
Phil said they didn't even talk about contract specifics in the Jimmy/Mitch/Phil meeting on Saturday morning. Kurt Rambis also said neither of it is true and was never discussed. Phil's agent said that he went to LA on Sunday evening to negotiate the contract and said that neither of those two things were even talked about. The Lakers did NOT refute anything that Phil/Rambis/his agent said. If they were lying, wouldn't lakers have refuted it by now?

It's obviously somebody in the media made up that nonsense and they all started using it. What a joke.

Phil DID ask for this on his last contract with the Lakers, that is where this came from a fact that was well known and I commented on it a couple months ago in a thread, it was assumed that he would ask for the same thing. It was not made up out of thin air.
Now did he ask for this again.......probably so but not to the point that negotiations should've been cut off. My guess is that Jimmy got drunk and/or pissed off at Jeanie and did the deal in the middle of the night.....why else would he do it at that hour, it's not like anyone was after 'Antoni.
It's the only thing that makes sense because the coach can't even be there for over a week
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:53 PM   #44
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
He agreed to having Woodson hired in New York and is now looking at Mcmillan, to me that sends a message he's willing to outsource the defense.
Chuck Pearson is also rumored to be staying, he was in charge of the defense the last year Phil was coaching.

It's also fair to consider what we can actually expect from this group of players defensively. If we can hit the open shots at a good rate I think this team should be 1st or 2nd offensively. But defensively what do you expect?
I know we have Dwight but people are old and just doesn't move as fast as they used to.
Last year under Brown the defensive specalist we had the 17th(!!!) ranked defense in the league and this year so far we're 14th.
So what can we realistically expect from these players?
I think if we can have a perhaps top 7-10 ranked defense and number 1 or 2 offense it would be a pretty strong combination, and I think there's a better chance of achieving that for this group of players than to say they have to form into an elite defensive unit when the potential isn't really there.
And just to clarify when I talk about offensive and defensive rankings I'm talking about effectiveness per possesion and not points total.

This team need needs good offense to have good defense, because when we miss shots and make turnovers(Lakers have an insane ammount of turnovers so far) the other team attacks in our weakest spot transition defense.

I think 'Antoni can get the optimal out of this group offensively, he got the same point guard albeit older, the best big man in the league and one of the best wing players ever, they will do great, take responsibility away from Artest so he doesn't have to make hard decisions, he's looked horrible in both the princeton and triangle because his mind can't process the decisions fast enough, also he can't dribble and have a hard time shooting, shit...he's tough to watch these days. I bet if Meeks can shoot like he did last year at 37 or so % he will get more time because he'll open things up considerably.

I could be wrong about all of this and we fail miserably, but I'm just trying to look at the possibilites from a positive point of view, it can't all be negative thoughts

Chuck Person will never help anyone's defense, it was a joke that Phil let him try. The guy was an incredible shooter but never played an ounce of defense in his entire career......that was like hiring Shaq to teach free throw shooting Brown actuall got that one thing right this year, he had Person working on Dwight's free throw shooting, I always said a legendary shooter like Person should be their shooting coach....nothing else. I'd be happy with a top 10 in defense....I do think we have the potential to be top 5......with the right HEAD COACH, which we don't have.

Good offense to have good defense......yes, that does help but it doesn't do it all, you still have to have aggressive play, strong, active rebounding and great rotations. 'Antoni doesn't give practice time for defense.

Keep your positive attitude I would love to join you but after enduring the idiot coach Mike Brown, this is the last guy I wanted coaching the Lakers, I'm burned out on bad coaching at this point.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:21 AM   #45
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Default Re: Sources: Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Chuck Person will never help anyone's defense, it was a joke that Phil let him try. The guy was an incredible shooter but never played an ounce of defense in his entire career......that was like hiring Shaq to teach free throw shooting Brown actuall got that one thing right this year, he had Person working on Dwight's free throw shooting, I always said a legendary shooter like Person should be their shooting coach....nothing else. I'd be happy with a top 10 in defense....I do think we have the potential to be top 5......with the right HEAD COACH, which we don't have.

Good offense to have good defense......yes, that does help but it doesn't do it all, you still have to have aggressive play, strong, active rebounding and great rotations. 'Antoni doesn't give practice time for defense.

Keep your positive attitude I would love to join you but after enduring the idiot coach Mike Brown, this is the last guy I wanted coaching the Lakers, I'm burned out on bad coaching at this point.

top 5 is reaching. Even with tom thibedou i am not sure about that.

I would give it a chance honestly. you never know with hiring of Nate M, Steve Clifford and C Person( the same chuck who jackson once trusted with his own offense)

People change over experience. He hired woodson for defense in NYK.

Not everybody is served on silver plate like Phil who had MJ/Pippen & Kobe/Shaq.

look at pop...what has he won since 2007? we can as might well say the old man has lost it...good team in regular season but gets bounced in playoffs pretty badly....

I am going to have a open mind about this and we will see
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