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Old 10-28-2012, 04:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

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Originally Posted by bisk
Woa, calm down RBA. Like yourself, I've been extremely suspicious about investing a first rounder on Weeden aswell, but they are proving me wrong and I'm starting to think he can actually become a very productive QB for some years to come.

However, he has been getting a lot (and I mean A LOT) of time in the pocket to throw his deep balls. Right now, I am waaaay more impressed with our OL (in pass protection) at times than with Weeden. Still, he's right on the money with his long throws and he's starting to get some heat and zip on his throws overall. Loving it.

Also, the only problems I got with him right now, are that he checks down way too often, dumping it off to Trent, and whenever he's under pressure, he doesn't handle it very well which result in some very poor throws. But hey, he's a rookie, albeit an old one, I'll still give him somewhat of a pass in his first year despite people saying he was NFL ready.

Speaking of Trent, I'd be wary of any draft conclusions. I am so sick of watching him trying to run up the gut for 2 yard gains with this offense. The quicker Shurmur's gone, the quicker Trent can flourish in my opinion.
You're exactly right about the offensive line. It has been phenomenal. I've been saying for years, "Why isn't our line better?" I mean, we do have arguably the best left tackle in the league, one of the best centers in the league, Pinkston was solid before his injury, Lavaou is not flashy, but a solid pro.... Which brings me to my next point, Mitchell Schwartz has been the real deal so far.

He's played every PLAY so far this year and seems to be getting better and better. He can play multiple positions and sides on that line with equal effectiveness. You know, of all our headline making draft picks in the last year (Richardson, Weeden, Gordon), Schwartz may turn out to be the best pick of any in the long run. We'll see how it shakes out.

As for my comments on Weeden, maybe slightly over the top, but I feel like I have to be a little over the top to compensate for people's often times completely off-base opinions about his season which is really based off of one game. If he wasn't 29, I would be jumping for joy right now. I do have to temper things a bit because he is so old for a rookie, but I do really like what I see. Even today in awful weather, he didn't make any big mistakes and came up with some very nice throws.

Now, you are right... Much of that credit should also go to the line which has been outstanding this year and the threat of an actual running game which we haven't had in the past, but Weeden also deserves the nod and I'm a guy who out-and-out hated that pick. He's got a rocket for an arm, has cut out the mistakes that were there in the first few weeks and seems to be "getting it" a little better each week.

I think if RG3 and Luck weren't playing as well as they are this year, Weeden would be getting a little more national attention for how well he's played, but right now it's been mostly under the radar (being 2-6 doesn't help). Hey, I'm willing to admit it when I'm wrong and, at least so far, he has completely blown away any expectations that I had.

As for Shurmur, he is a really bad in-game coach. I've noticed, like today, we came out of the gates looking great on offense. He had a plan for that first drive and the team executed it flawlessly... But, as San Diego adjusted, he failed to meet those new challenges. Plus, he way too easily goes away from the running game and gets enamored with throwing the ball. We have a bull in the backfield and a damn good line. Why not use that for more than a "two yard in a cloud of dust" type dive every 4-5 plays? It isn't impossible to get creative with the running game, but he seems inept at doing so.

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Old 10-28-2012, 05:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

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Originally Posted by Is He Ill
He has looked mediocre thus far, what the hell are you talking about?

weeden has been a great rookie so far. He makes tons of rookie mistakes but is playing very well despite having very few weapons (probably the worst in the NFL) , an unreliable running game. He weasled out a win in horrible conditions today. Should be a 3 game win streak but

He also has put up great Passer ratings and kept a whole lot of the Browns games close. In 2-3 yrs he's going to pull out wins in those close games

Makes a lot of BIG plays too

I just checked the yards leaders and he's in the top 10 in passing yards more than Luck, Big Ben, RG3, and even MATTY ICE!

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Old 10-28-2012, 05:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

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Originally Posted by FreezingTsmoove
He makes tons of rookie mistakes

Actually, one of the most impressive things about him aside from the first game is his lack of poor decisions. Like Bisk said, a lot of that has to do with the line being terrific, but he still has to make the throws.

The one area he needs to improve in is getting his balls batted down at the line. For as tall as he is, he gets a ton of tips from defenders. But, outside of that, I have virtually zero complaints about mistakes.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

We're not even halfway through the season. Maybe they did, but maybe they didn't. Let them play some games before we start declaring this and that. I'm wary because I've seen a lot of players that looked good early only to quickly fizzle out, and a number of guys who were nearly nonexistent early who turned into HOFers. I don't know why some people want to be so quick to throw labels on players.

Quote:
*He has an NFL rookie-best 333 receiving yards. He is on pace to set the Browns’ rookie receiving yards record (Kevin Johnson had 986 yards in 1999).

Gordon is on pace for 758 yards, which is somehow more than 986?
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

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Originally Posted by Jackass18
We're not even halfway through the season. Maybe they did, but maybe they didn't. Let them play some games before we start declaring this and that. I'm wary because I've seen a lot of players that looked good early only to quickly fizzle out, and a number of guys who were nearly nonexistent early who turned into HOFers. I don't know why some people want to be so quick to throw labels on players.
Oh, I agree. That's why I prefaced it by saying the title of the thread was not my words. You are always going to get comparisons with rookies, though. Just the nature of the game.

On the bright side with Gordon, he was perceived as a guy with crazy upside, but it was going to take him time before he could acclimate himself to the NFL level. The idea is that, hopefully, what we are seeing now is just the beginning.

But, we obviously won't know where these guys stand in the broader picture until they've been in the league for 4-5 years.

The thing that makes Gordon such an exciting prospect is this kind of production was not expected (at least by me and most Browns fans I know) this soon. And, his combination of size, speed and hands seems pretty rare.

All of that said, there was a time after his 17 touchdown season when I thought Braylon Edwards was going to be maybe the best WR in the entire league for a long time. Trust me, I've seen my share of guys take off only to plummet back to earth.

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Old 10-28-2012, 08:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

Blackmon had a TD if Gabbert doesnt throw a horrible pass behind him on goaline. No one will mention that so I will. It was an easy play to make. Gabbert is trash.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Actually, one of the most impressive things about him aside from the first game is his lack of poor decisions. Like Bisk said, a lot of that has to do with the line being terrific, but he still has to make the throws.

The one area he needs to improve in is getting his balls batted down at the line. For as tall as he is, he gets a ton of tips from defenders. But, outside of that, I have virtually zero complaints about mistakes.

Please this nig be throwing the dumbest INT's at times. I still remember when he had the ball batted down and he caught it and tried to throw it again
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:41 PM   #23
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreezingTsmoove
Please this nig be throwing the dumbest INT's at times. I still remember when he had the ball batted down and he caught it and tried to throw it again
Yeah, you know what was really funny? That was the best play he could have made in that situation. Want to know why? That play was on 4th down. By catching the batted ball and throwing it again for a catch in the end zone, he forced the defense to accept the penalty and it gave us an additional play that we wouldn't have had if he simply ran with the ball after catching it. If the defense hadn't accepted that penalty and given us that additional play, the touchdown would have counted. Had he not thrown the ball again, it would have been a turnover on downs. So, while you may think it was dumb, it was actually the best possible outcome after the ball was tipped.

By making a play which you deem stupid, he actually gave us one more shot at a score late in the game.

And, he hasn't been throwing INTs, let alone dumb INTs. He hasn't thrown an interception in the last two games and has only thrown one interception in the last three games... And that came off of an unlucky tipped ball at the line, not a misread or stupid throw.

And, just as important, he only has one fumble this year and it was in the first game.

Again, I'd like you to cite these "dumb" interceptions he has apparently been throwing lately... Because, as someone who watches every second of every game, I haven't seen one in quite some time. I think maybe the last really bad interceptions he's thrown was back in the third week of the season against the Bills, and that only came after we fell behind late and he was forced to take shots down the field into coverage.

Not sure what you're seeing.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 10-29-2012 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:10 AM   #24
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Yeah, you know what was really funny? That was the best play he could have made in that situation. Want to know why? That play was on 4th down. By catching the batted ball and throwing it again for a catch in the end zone, he forced the defense to accept the penalty and it gave us an additional play that we wouldn't have had if he simply ran with the ball after catching it. If the defense hadn't accepted that penalty and given us that additional play, the touchdown would have counted. Had he not thrown the ball again, it would have been a turnover on downs. So, while you may think it was dumb, it was actually the best possible outcome after the ball was tipped.

By making a play which you deem stupid, he actually gave us one more shot at a score late in the game.

And, he hasn't been throwing INTs, let alone dumb INTs. He hasn't thrown an interception in the last two games and has only thrown one interception in the last three games... And that came off of an unlucky tipped ball at the line, not a misread or stupid throw.

And, just as important, he only has one fumble this year and it was in the first game.

Again, I'd like you to cite these "dumb" interceptions he has apparently been throwing lately... Because, as someone who watches every second of every game, I haven't seen one in quite some time. I think maybe the last really bad interceptions he's thrown was back in the third week of the season against the Bills, and that only came after we fell behind late and he was forced to take shots down the field into coverage.

Not sure what you're seeing.

I think he is getting Mark Sanchez confused with Weeden.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Yeah, you know what was really funny? That was the best play he could have made in that situation. Want to know why? That play was on 4th down. By catching the batted ball and throwing it again for a catch in the end zone, he forced the defense to accept the penalty and it gave us an additional play that we wouldn't have had if he simply ran with the ball after catching it. If the defense hadn't accepted that penalty and given us that additional play, the touchdown would have counted. Had he not thrown the ball again, it would have been a turnover on downs. So, while you may think it was dumb, it was actually the best possible outcome after the ball was tipped.

By making a play which you deem stupid, he actually gave us one more shot at a score late in the game.

And, he hasn't been throwing INTs, let alone dumb INTs. He hasn't thrown an interception in the last two games and has only thrown one interception in the last three games... And that came off of an unlucky tipped ball at the line, not a misread or stupid throw.

And, just as important, he only has one fumble this year and it was in the first game.

Again, I'd like you to cite these "dumb" interceptions he has apparently been throwing lately... Because, as someone who watches every second of every game, I haven't seen one in quite some time. I think maybe the last really bad interceptions he's thrown was back in the third week of the season against the Bills, and that only came after we fell behind late and he was forced to take shots down the field into coverage.

Not sure what you're seeing.


Well im not talking about a short 3 game stretch im talking about the whole season. Just look back at his 1st game and the tons of rookie mistakes he made there. But anyway im actually defending weeden on here many ppl think he sucks but I dont

He also makes the mistake of just eyeing down one part of the field numerous times. I can show you a video if you want

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Old 10-30-2012, 09:57 AM   #26
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
You're exactly right about the offensive line. It has been phenomenal. I've been saying for years, "Why isn't our line better?" I mean, we do have arguably the best left tackle in the league, one of the best centers in the league, Pinkston was solid before his injury, Lavaou is not flashy, but a solid pro.... Which brings me to my next point, Mitchell Schwartz has been the real deal so far.

He's played every PLAY so far this year and seems to be getting better and better. He can play multiple positions and sides on that line with equal effectiveness. You know, of all our headline making draft picks in the last year (Richardson, Weeden, Gordon), Schwartz may turn out to be the best pick of any in the long run. We'll see how it shakes out.

As for my comments on Weeden, maybe slightly over the top, but I feel like I have to be a little over the top to compensate for people's often times completely off-base opinions about his season which is really based off of one game. If he wasn't 29, I would be jumping for joy right now. I do have to temper things a bit because he is so old for a rookie, but I do really like what I see. Even today in awful weather, he didn't make any big mistakes and came up with some very nice throws.

Now, you are right... Much of that credit should also go to the line which has been outstanding this year and the threat of an actual running game which we haven't had in the past, but Weeden also deserves the nod and I'm a guy who out-and-out hated that pick. He's got a rocket for an arm, has cut out the mistakes that were there in the first few weeks and seems to be "getting it" a little better each week.

I think if RG3 and Luck weren't playing as well as they are this year, Weeden would be getting a little more national attention for how well he's played, but right now it's been mostly under the radar (being 2-6 doesn't help). Hey, I'm willing to admit it when I'm wrong and, at least so far, he has completely blown away any expectations that I had.

As for Shurmur, he is a really bad in-game coach. I've noticed, like today, we came out of the gates looking great on offense. He had a plan for that first drive and the team executed it flawlessly... But, as San Diego adjusted, he failed to meet those new challenges. Plus, he way too easily goes away from the running game and gets enamored with throwing the ball. We have a bull in the backfield and a damn good line. Why not use that for more than a "two yard in a cloud of dust" type dive every 4-5 plays? It isn't impossible to get creative with the running game, but he seems inept at doing so.


Can't really add too much to this, well said.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:05 AM   #27
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

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Originally Posted by FreezingTsmoove
Well im not talking about a short 3 game stretch im talking about the whole season. Just look back at his 1st game and the tons of rookie mistakes he made there. But anyway im actually defending weeden on here many ppl think he sucks but I dont

He also makes the mistake of just eyeing down one part of the field numerous times. I can show you a video if you want
Not trying to argue with you. I just want to set the record straight and I'm not seeing what you're seeing... And I like to think I'm pretty informed when it comes to the Browns.

It isn't just a three-game stretch. He really hasn't been turnover prone since the first week of the season.

Game 2: @ Bengals - 26/37 (70.3%), 322 yards, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles

Game 3: vs. Bills - 27/43 (62.8%), 237 yards, 1 touchdown, 2 interceptions, 0 fumbles

Game 4: @ Ravens - 25/52 (48.1%), 320 yards, 0 touchdowns, 1 interception, 0 fumbles

Game 5: @ Giants - 22/35 (62.9%), 291 yards, 2 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 0 fumbles

Game 6: vs. Bengals - 17/29 (58.6%), 231 yards, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception, 0 fumbles

Game 7: @ Colts - 25/41 (61.0%), 264 yards, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles

Game 8: vs. Chargers - 11/27 (40.7%), 129 yards, 0 touchdowns, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles
*Hurricane conditions


None of these games constitutes a rookie making tons of mistakes. To me, a rookie making tons of mistakes means turning the ball over a lot, either with interceptions or fumbles. He simply hasn't been doing that outside of the first game.

If you exclude his horrific opener, he has thrown 9 touchdowns against 6 interceptions and 0 fumbles. Those are quality, mistake-free numbers regardless of whether a guy is a rookie or not.

During the same stretch, Eli Manning has 11 touchdowns against 8 interceptions and 1 fumble.

Andrew Luck has 7 touchdowns against 5 interceptions and 5 fumbles.


Look, I'm not saying he doesn't occasionally have some rookie moments and misreads coverage or misses open guys or overthrows/underthrows the ball. You are always going to have that out of an inexperienced NFL quarterback. But, to describe his season as having a ton of mistakes is quite an overstatement, imo.

I think we agree in general about his season, though. So, whatever.... It doesn't matter that much.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

Shawn 'Vowels' Lauvao was the Browns' top graded player last week. OL doin' work.

Btw, RBA, think we should address DE with our first picks in next year's draft or rather get a defensive back? Browns desperately need to generate a pass rush in my opinion and I could see us going for Jarvis next year. Sheard's been getting a lot of double teams this year, after his big rookie season, but our DL can't seem to take advantage. Those 2 coming of the edge could be a beautiful thing to watch. Or we could Winn play at DE, he's been making some noise, and have Jarvis play SAM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

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Originally Posted by bisk
Shawn 'Vowels' Lauvao was the Browns' top graded player last week. OL doin' work.

Btw, RBA, think we should address DE with our first picks in next year's draft or rather get a defensive back? Browns desperately need to generate a pass rush in my opinion and I could see us going for Jarvis next year. Sheard's been getting a lot of double teams this year, after his big rookie season, but our DL can't seem to take advantage. Those 2 coming of the edge could be a beautiful thing to watch. Or we could Winn play at DE, he's been making some noise, and have Jarvis play SAM.
I've had my eye on Jarvis all year and I think he would be exactly what this defense needs. One thing that Sheard is really missing right now, though, is Phil Taylor. Those two played off of one another so extremely well last year, with Taylor eating up space and requiring a lot of attention and Sheard feasting on one-on-ones as a result.

If offensive lines tried the stuff they are trying now with Phil in the middle, he would be wreaking havoc. I remember how disheartened I was when I heard about his injury in the offseason. We have been seeing its devastating impact all year. That isn't to say that guys like Rubin (when he was healthy) and even the rookie Hughes haven't done a nice job, but they aren't Phil Taylor.

As for corner, it is obviously a position which needs to be addressed, but this draft doesn't seem like the one to do it with our first pick. There isn't a Joe Haden type of prospect out there, it doesn't seem. Maybe that is a spot we can address in free agency.

All I know is that, if we have a healthy Phil Taylor and we add Jarvis to the mix, that is going to be a very formidable front 7.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:14 PM   #30
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Default Re: Browns Look Smart For Not Drafting Blackmon

Even if there was another Joe Haden in the draft you dont pass up a Jarvis Jones for him. He is a monster. Establish front 7, makes the back 4 look much better. Another pass rusher I like is Bjoern Werner from FSU. If Jones is gone, Cleveland should grab him.
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