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Old 10-21-2012, 07:36 AM   #31
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

Vince's problem is he never evolved. He was more or less the same player through his prime, and once his otherworldly athleticism left him, he became ordinary. I recall seeing Kobe years ago coming back every season with something new, to where you could tell that the guy had spent the entire summer in the gym. Vince never seemed to have that desire to diversify his game. Its why Kobe is still a top 6 player today and Vince is a benchwarmer, despite the mileage on Kobe.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

VC was never the same athletically after he tore his ACL in 2002 or 2003 forgot when.

However, he did develop his game especially on the nets. One problem was before he joined the nets, and after his injury, the US media just forgot about him and stopped hyping him having signed a longterm contract with the raptors. The biggest effect this had was that he had ZERO respect from the refs and was no longer getting superstar treatment. This is 100% true.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:24 AM   #33
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

Honestly nobody here really knows Vince's work ethic and I think he gets a bad rap because he's the type of person that smiles too much. Like in NY, I couldn't stand when the idiot callers used to call in and want to get rid of Eli Manning simply because of his facial expressions and no other reason. Just because of his facial expressions they felt he didn't care. People are dumb.

And by the way, back in the day I used to defend Kobe against the people who used to say Vince was better, so it's not like I'm this huge Vince fan.

Last edited by jstern : 10-21-2012 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:24 AM   #34
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

It was never about his work ethic at all. Vince has been a hard worker for most of his career and is getting high praise from Rick Carlisle for his astounding effort. It was more of his mindset. He knew his talents and leaping ability alone could get him 25-30 any given night so he just stopped there. He never pushed himself to reach his true potential. Tmac on the other hand was a player who just wanted to score 30-35 a game and if that resulted in a win, great and if not, whatever. He just cared about being the man of his team. Should have just stayed with vince in 01.
And if vince had shaq during his Toronto days they would have steamrolled the east and won several rings together. Vince has never had the luxury of playing with a championship supporting cast around him. Especially a center.

Last edited by It's A VC3!!! : 10-21-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:45 AM   #35
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noob Saibot
does kobe jordan still win a title if he's not a Laker? i mean he is that gifted right?

would lebron of won if he wasnt a miami heat instead of a cavalier?

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Old 10-21-2012, 09:32 AM   #36
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

GOAT if that were the case.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:32 AM   #37
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by It's A VC3!!!
getting high praise from Rick Carlisle for his astounding effort

What? A coach praising his player? Ssssssssssssssssssssssssssshocking!!!
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:54 AM   #38
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstern
Honestly nobody here really knows Vince's work ethic and I think he gets a bad rap because he's the type of person that smiles too much. Like in NY, I couldn't stand when the idiot callers used to call in and want to get rid of Eli Manning simply because of his facial expressions and no other reason. Just because of his facial expressions they felt he didn't care. People are dumb.

And by the way, back in the day I used to defend Kobe against the people who used to say Vince was better, so it's not like I'm this huge Vince fan.
I agree, I've always wondered where the assumptions about his work ethic came from. Is it crazy to think Kobe's work ethic and drive were greater? Not really. But for some to take that assumption and use it to suggest Vince hardly ever worked or cared is way off base in my opinion.

Personally, I believe Vince Carter would have never been Vince Carter if he'd never worked extremely hard and pushed himself nearly to the limit. There's a lot of insane, "natural" basketball athletes out there and 99.9999% of them do not end up on Vince Carter's level.

I've always thought one of the biggest criticisms of Vince Carter has been, essentially, that he understood there was more to life than basketball and the game itself probably wasn't the most important aspect of his life. Whereas some of the all-time greats, we sort of were given the impression they lived and died with the game.

In a way, I guess these are just my ways of making excuses for Carter but at the end of the day, I don't think anyone naturally shoots nearly 38% from the arc while averaging 24ppg+ for so many years of their career while playing in the most advanced basketball league on the planet. Sometimes for who a player is, there's a peak, and Carter's peak wasn't on the same level as some of the greatest players in the history of NBA basketball. I say, so be it. It is just interesting to see the work ethic hypotheticals always pop up with Carter, as if every star player except for Carter (and McGrady) is assumed to have pushed themselves to the absolute limit.

Again, no on walks onto an NBA floor and naturally does what Carter did. He pushed himself, he just wasn't as good as Kobe Bryant. He happened to be only better than 99% of every other NBA basketball player in history, not 99.9%. So be it.

Also, I'm extremely biased in Carter's favor.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:58 AM   #39
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

Yea like some else said, it's not just work ethic, it's mind set. And Kobe had other nature abilities that Vince did (lateral quickness, handle as mentioned before).

And whoever mentioned body control as a strength for Kobe over Carter, I'd have to disagree. Kobe definitely has better foot work, but in-air body control I'd say is a wash, if not leaning towards Vince.

And about T-mac, he also had the mind set issue, but I think he himself has said that because of his talent he didn't push himself as hard in practice. But, let's not act like injuries weren't his biggest issue. They devastated his career. And you can't say his work ethic was the causes of his injuries, because he has had a bad back for a long time going all the way back to Orlando, you don't just get a bad back by not practicing or working out as much, those things are usually genetic/ chronic. Now the other injuries can be argued came from the work ethic, but even then a lot of it was related to arthritis, again something if you are going to get, can't do much to avoid. Again not saying his work ethic was great by any means, but injuries is what killed his career, the work ethic was just he nail in the coffin. he'd still be playing in the NBA if it wasn't for the injuries.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:12 AM   #40
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swi7ch
What? A coach praising his player? Ssssssssssssssssssssssssssshocking!!!
Sigh. Normally I ignore morons but whatever. Not every coach or player praises their athletes. Rick Carlisle keeps calling Vince a HoF players, he keeps saying how in video session the Mavericks go over Vince's plays a lot because he appreictads the effort. And he also refers to Vince as one of the most professional players he's ever coached. Not every coach says that about their players dumbass.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:27 AM   #41
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

lol @ some of these responses.

Vince Carter still worked as hard as any NBA star had to. You do'nt just sit on the couch and expect to get into the NBA.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:26 AM   #42
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

I remember when Vince took a plane to attend his graduation ceremony on the same day that he was to play in game 7 of the eastern semi-finals against the Sixers (the year they went to the finals and lost to the Lakers) in 2001.

The Raptors lost by one point with Vince missing the buzzer beater. He shot I think 6 for 18 that game. He was criticized heavily for this at the time by the fans and the media.

As a Raptor fan, I was annoyed by this move myself as all sorts of what-ifs entered my mind. What if Vince didn't board that plane and shot 7 for 18 or better that night because he wasn't as tired? Raptors make the east finals, beat the bucks and play in the NBA finals against the Lakers.

This example illustrates the primary difference between Vince and Kobe/MJ: Vince doesn't love the game as much as Kobe/MJ.

Last edited by Brick Rick : 10-21-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:55 AM   #43
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

Could ask the same about T-mac..damn that guy was crazy good but lacked the work ethic and heart.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:27 PM   #44
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

I think the mistake most of yall are making are thinking that if vince carter worked hard once, then he worked hard all the time. There is no doubt that when Vince came into the league he was driven, hard working and all that. There is no way he could have gotten to his level if he wasnt. But after a certain point you could tell he just stopped working and improving his game. Fixing weaknesses making adjustments... Vince started out great, but lost his desire to improve at some point. This is what seperates Jordan and Kobe.. They improved EVERY season. They worked hard EVERY season. Thats what sets them apart from everyone else. Other players might work hard, but they do not work hard with the same consistency and relentlessness that Kobe and Jordan put forth. PRO Sports are truly a mental game at the highest level.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:33 PM   #45
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Default Re: Give Vince Carter Kobe's work ethic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J.
Better three point shooter, attacked the hoop at will, more athletic, a bit below him defensively but able to block shots. Add Kobe's work ethic, there's no reason to think Vince couldn't push top 10 all-time. The physical gifts were there from day 1.

With Kobe's work ethic, he would still just be Vince Carter.

A player will always hit their ceiling and this is true of VC. He just wasn't as talented or gifted as Kobe. Slow lateral movements, not very quick and bad handles.

But the number 1 thing that sets them apart is mindset. A better question is Give VC the mindset of Kobe....
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