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Old 09-21-2012, 07:47 PM   #151
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Realist
Calabis is right. Worthy was pretty good against Pippen despite the ankle. He was good against Jordan, too, but Jordan didn't guard him as much. I just saw the first 2 and a half games the last couple of days. Even before this topic veered toward this way, I was thinking about how good Worthy was in the 91 Finals and how much I forgot about it. At least for the first 2 and a half games... I plan on watching the rest of Game 3 tonight after everyone goes to bed.

Lol he is rewriting history for Pippen, Worthy did this on a bad wheel, he also doesn't mention Jordan guarding Magic for the majority of the first quarter, Magic had 0 points on Jordan, when they switch Jordan switches to Scott...when Paxson comes in Jordan guards Divac.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:23 PM   #152
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
For most of the game, Jordans primary man.... was Worthy. Levingston played 22 minutes. Worthy played 40. Noones trying to change anything.



Pippen did a great job on Magic, and dropped 20 points and had 10 assissts in the process.

If anything, Worthy didn't toast Pippen. Did he score some points on him? Sure. But over the course of the series? Worthys contribution was minimal

Go rewatch the game you have no clue in what you are talking about, if Pip guarded him most of the first quarter at least 8-10 min, and Levingston guarded him the other 22 min(32 of 40 min), Grant also guarded him for a couple of stretches 5-8 min worth, Jordan may have guarded him twice in the 36 minutes he played, resulted in 0 points

he guarded Scott, when he wasn't on Scott he guarded Divac
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:12 PM   #153
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

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Originally Posted by Calabis
Go rewatch the game you have no clue in what you are talking about, if Pip guarded him most of the first quarter at least 8-10 min, and Levingston guarded him the other 22 min(32 of 40 min), Grant also guarded him for a couple of stretches 5-8 min worth, Jordan may have guarded him twice in the 36 minutes he played, resulted in 0 points

he guarded Scott, when he wasn't on Scott he guarded Divac

Peeps actually act like it's really complicated to just pop in a dvd and review it, like a poster a while back arguing that the 96 Sonics were "so close" to taking the Bulls to 7 games, leaving out the fact that the Bulls had a 10+ point lead with under a minute left in game 6 to win it all.


You would think a learned poster like 97 Bulls would know better than to argue the points he's making like he's doing, considering he's a "Bulls Fan" who allegedly watched these games already.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:50 PM   #154
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

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Originally Posted by Nevaeh
Peeps actually act like it's really complicated to just pop in a dvd and review it, like a poster a while back arguing that the 96 Sonics were "so close" to taking the Bulls to 7 games, leaving out the fact that the Bulls had a 10+ point lead with under a minute left in game 6 to win it all.


You would think a learned poster like 97 Bulls would know better than to argue the points he's making like he's doing, considering he's a "Bulls Fan" who allegedly watched these games already.

Exactly, I bet he's on you tube right now re-watching it and like damn he is guarding Divac..

The reason I kinda recalled this, yet had to review to confirm it, was because I remember screaming at the screen, when Magic drove on Pippen and Jordan took a charge, I thought they were going to call it on MJ which would have been his third foul, also I just recall Jordan guarding Divac a ton in the series
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:54 PM   #155
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

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Originally Posted by Da_Realist
Calabis is right. Worthy was pretty good against Pippen despite the ankle. He was good against Jordan, too, but Jordan didn't guard him as much. I just saw the first 2 and a half games the last couple of days. Even before this topic veered toward this way, I was thinking about how good Worthy was in the 91 Finals and how much I forgot about it. At least for the first 2 and a half games... I plan on watching the rest of Game 3 tonight after everyone goes to bed.

The biggest myth in NBA history is that Pip is the GOAT defender…. he is not.

He's one of the best, but I've seen him get beat by many players. I undertand that everybody gets beat from time to time, but for the supposed GOAT he gets beat far too much. He wasn't strong or physical enough for post players, and he'd get beat by some perimeter players often as well.

He was great at roaming and helping out due to his length, putting pressure on the ball, but not the one on one stopper people make him out to be…. that was MJ.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:04 PM   #156
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

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Originally Posted by Calabis
Exactly, I bet he's on you tube right now re-watching it and like damn he is guarding Divac..

The reason I kinda recalled this, yet had to review to confirm it, was because I remember screaming at the screen, when Magic drove on Pippen and Jordan took a charge, I thought they were going to call it on MJ which would have been his third foul, also I just recall Jordan guarding Divac a ton in the series

Exactly. It's like someone will post something, and you'll say "did that really happen? Nah, I don't remember that happening..." which prompts you to review it again. Not only do your own memories get validated, but the arguments that someone will make against you, on something that you know you saw, gets shot to hell and back.

97 Is just trippin' right now. He'll be straight once the season starts.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:04 PM   #157
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calabis
Exactly, I bet he's on you tube right now re-watching it and like damn he is guarding Divac..

The reason I kinda recalled this, yet had to review to confirm it, was because I remember screaming at the screen, when Magic drove on Pippen and Jordan took a charge, I thought they were going to call it on MJ which would have been his third foul, also I just recall Jordan guarding Divac a ton in the series

I remember that play and felt the same way!

Also, to be honest, the Bulls did a lot of late doubling on Magic. Whoever guarded him bodied him up down the court and tried to turn him around as much as possible to take time off the clock. A second guy would usually come from Magic's blind spot to double him while his primary defender tried to turn Magic into it -- usually forcing Magic to give up the ball. A lesser player would have given up tons of turnovers. The Bulls were great at taking out the opposing point guards.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:18 PM   #158
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

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Originally Posted by Da_Realist
I remember that play and felt the same way!

Also, to be honest, the Bulls did a lot of late doubling on Magic. Whoever guarded him bodied him up down the court and tried to turn him around as much as possible to take time off the clock. A second guy would usually come from Magic's blind spot to double him while his primary defender tried to turn Magic into it -- usually forcing Magic to give up the ball. A lesser player would have given up tons of turnovers. The Bulls were great at taking out the opposing point guards.

That's called good coaching. I can only imagine the amount of careers prime coach Phil and company would end with some of today's point guards. Guys like Lin would be too shook to play.


He almost exposed Rondo, had Rondo not worked on his mid-range and driving abilities a bit more.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:36 PM   #159
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calabis
Lol he is rewriting history for Pippen, Worthy did this on a bad wheel, he also doesn't mention Jordan guarding Magic for the majority of the first quarter, Magic had 0 points on Jordan, when they switch Jordan switches to Scott...when Paxson comes in Jordan guards Divac.
Nobodies rewriting history. Pippen guarded Magic in game two save for the first seven minutes of the game. And did an amazing Job.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:43 PM   #160
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevaeh
Peeps actually act like it's really complicated to just pop in a dvd and review it, like a poster a while back arguing that the 96 Sonics were "so close" to taking the Bulls to 7 games, leaving out the fact that the Bulls had a 10+ point lead with under a minute left in game 6 to win it all.


You would think a learned poster like 97 Bulls would know better than to argue the points he's making like he's doing, considering he's a "Bulls Fan" who allegedly watched these games already.
Lol let it go. I was wrong. Its not the first time, it won't be the last. The fact still remains Pippen shut down Magic. He was clearly flustered. To the point that Divac and Perkins found themselve bringing the ball up the court.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:52 PM   #161
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Lol let it go. I was wrong. Its not the first time, it won't be the last. The fact still remains Pippen shut down Magic. He was clearly flustered. To the point that Divac and Perkins found themselve bringing the ball up the court.

It's all good 97. And it's nothing personal either. I've been called out on crap I was wrong on too.

But dude, even you have to admit that you've been slipping lately, especially on the fact-checking, which should be easy for you, being a Bulls Fan and all.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:54 PM   #162
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

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Originally Posted by andgar923
The biggest myth in NBA history is that Pip is the GOAT defender…. he is not.

No, he isn't.

But then again, I've never seen anyone on a basketball message board claim that Pippen was the greatest defensive player of all time (I'll leave open the possibility that I've simply missed it). People have said (and say) he's the greatest perimeter defender of all time, but saying someone is the GOAT perimeter defender and saying they're the GOAT defender are two different things.

And it's impossible for the former to also be the latter, as a perimeter defender cannot affect a game defensively as a big man can due to inherent positional limitations.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:06 PM   #163
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

Scottie Pippen > John Havlicek
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:08 PM   #164
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

Scottie Pippen is the greatest defender Ive seen play the game. Hondo is not.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:10 PM   #165
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

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Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r
No, he isn't.

But then again, I've never seen anyone on a basketball message board claim that Pippen was the greatest defensive player of all time (I'll leave open the possibility that I've simply missed it). People have said (and say) he's the greatest perimeter defender of all time, but saying someone is the GOAT perimeter defender and saying they're the GOAT defender are two different things.

And it's impossible for the former to also be the latter, as a perimeter defender cannot affect a game defensively as a big man can due to inherent positional limitations.

To be fair, you are correct.

Most people do say he's the GOAT perimeter defender. There is some that have claimed that he's the GOAT defender unless they meant the GOAT 'perimeter' defender.

But my main point still stands.

He's not the defensive stopper many make him out to be. He's great, but not the best. Too weak inside and he's been beat on the perimeter players often while he was ON them. Not on switches, not on broken plays, but mano y mano. Everybody gets beat, but with a player of his reputation you wouldn't expect him to get beat as much as he has.
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