Guys who were the best offensive + defensive player on a championship team?

[SourPatchKids]

I might be misunderstanding your question...correct me if I am.

But LeBron last year? Wasn't a great defender, but was the best on Miami. Obviously was the best offensive player.

Prior to that... I'd go Timmy Duncan.

[The Choken One]

haven't really thought about LeBron, but the two guys I have in mind are:

94 Hakeem Olajuwon (likely 95 as well in my book, but a handful of people give Clyde the edge)
03 Tim Duncan (in 99 Admiral was the defensive anchor, and in 05/07 arguably Manu and definitely Parker respectively meant more to the offense IMO)

Didn't get to watch Hakeem. Duncan in 03 definitely, and honestly in 05, too. Parker was offensive MVP in 07.

[lilgodfather1]

I'm not familiar with the early 90's, but wouldn't Pippen the best perimiter defender of all time be the Bulls best defender, and possibly in the later 90's Rodman could be in the running (although was past his prime obviously).

I realise that Jordan won DPOY one year, but i'm not sure which year and don't really want to do the research to find out if they won the title or not that season.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Kevin Garnett

[Pushxx]

Kareem '71, '80

Bird '86

Garnett '08

Duncan, Hakeem, Jordan already mentioned.

Pierce was better offensively in '08 and McHale was better defensively in '86.

[fpliii]

Didn't get to watch Hakeem. Duncan in 03 definitely, and honestly in 05, too. Parker was offensive MVP in 07.

I agree about 05, but I wanted to form a consensus list here...I don't think anybody will argue the two I mentioned

I'm not familiar with the early 90's, but wouldn't Pippen the best perimiter defender of all time be the Bulls best defender, and possibly in the later 90's Rodman could be in the running (although was past his prime obviously).

I realise that Jordan won DPOY one year, but i'm not sure which year and don't really want to do the research to find out if they won the title or not that season.

88 I think (might've been 87?)

chasing23 did a great piece on those Bulls teams earlier this year:

http://chasing23.com/did-scottie-pip...s-best-player/

[Harison]

Pierce was better offensively in '08 and McHale was better defensively in '86.

Nope, not in the Playoffs.

[lilgodfather1]

I agree about 05, but I wanted to form a consensus list here...I don't think anybody will argue the two I mentioned



88 I think (might've been 87?)

chasing23 did a great piece on those Bulls teams earlier this year:

http://chasing23.com/did-scottie-pip...s-best-player/

In that very article it says that Scottie was guarding Magic in the finals... changed momentum... etc, and then he lists MJ as the primary defender of Magic, and uses MJ's 8 "assigned" to the best offensive player of the opposition to claim he was the best defender on the Bulls. To me that means that Scottie did the defensive job on MJ giving him the 8 to 7 edge in Bulls assignments of the best offensive players of the opposition, and not MJ having the 8 to 7 edge.

Of course that's not a huge difference, but it suggests bias to me, and therefore I have to take everything else with a grain of salt. I don't remember the 90's as I was born in 91 (maybe i'm good luck for the Bulls?), but the games I have seen of the Bulls suggests Pippen was the defensie anchor of the Bulls, and he was dominant defensively as MJ was offensively.

Not that I can prove MJ was not the most important defender on the Bulls championships, but it certainly couldn't have been clear cut.

[rmt]

03 Tim Duncan (in 99 Admiral was the defensive anchor, and in 05/07 arguably Manu and definitely Parker respectively meant more to the offense IMO)

Didn't get to watch Hakeem. Duncan in 03 definitely, and honestly in 05, too. Parker was offensive MVP in 07.

1998-99 Regular Season

Duncan 21.7 pts / 11.4 rebs / 2.5 blks
DRob 15.8 pts / 10.0 rebs / 2.4 blks

1998-99 Playoffs

Duncan 23.2 pts / 11.5 rebs / 2.6 blks
DRob 15.6 pts / 9.9 rebs / 2.4 blks


2004-05 Regular Season

Duncan 20.3 pts / 2.7 assts
Parker 16.6 pts / 6.1 assts
Manu 16.0 / 3.9 assts

2004-05 Playoffs

Duncan 23.6 pts / 2.7 assts
Manu 20.8 pts / 4.2 assts
Parker 17.2 pts / 4.3 assts

2006-07 Regular Season

Duncan 20.0 pts / 3.4 assts
Parker 18.6 pts / 5.5 assts
Manu 16.5 pts / 3.5 assts

2006-07 Playoffs

Duncan 22.2 pts / 3.3 assts
Parker 20.8 pts / 5.8 assts
Manu 16.7 pts / 3.7 assts

[fpliii]

1998-99 Regular Season

Duncan 21.7 pts / 11.4 rebs / 2.5 blks
DRob 15.8 pts / 10.0 rebs / 2.4 blks

1998-99 Playoffs

Duncan 23.2 pts / 11.5 rebs / 2.6 blks
DRob 15.6 pts / 9.9 rebs / 2.4 blks


2004-05 Regular Season

Duncan 20.3 pts / 2.7 assts
Parker 16.6 pts / 6.1 assts
Manu 16.0 / 3.9 assts

2004-05 Playoffs

Duncan 23.6 pts / 2.7 assts
Manu 20.8 pts / 4.2 assts
Parker 17.2 pts / 4.3 assts

2006-07 Regular Season

Duncan 20.0 pts / 3.4 assts
Parker 18.6 pts / 5.5 assts
Manu 16.5 pts / 3.5 assts

2006-07 Playoffs

Duncan 22.2 pts / 3.3 assts
Parker 20.8 pts / 5.8 assts
Manu 16.7 pts / 3.7 assts

I have no problem with saying Duncan was the best player on both sides of the ball in 05, but you won't find a consensus (because many contend Ginobili was a bigger force in every series except the WCF); regarding the other two years:

99 - I'm basing this primarily on my own impression from watching them that season/playoffs...here's a decent breakdown:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=239755

07 - I give the slight edge to Parker, but have no problem if you choose Duncan:

1st round (vs DEN)

Duncan - 20.2/5.4 on .473/---/.591 shooting
Parker - 18.2/6.8 on .442/.333/.875 shooting

West Semis (vs PHO)

Duncan - 26.8/1.2 on .573/---/.614 shooting
Parker - 20.8/5.7 on .451/.000/.697 shooting

WCF (vs UTA)

Duncan - 21.8/3.2 on .576/---/.717 shooting
Parker - 20.2/6.8 on .481/.667/.658 shooting

Finals (vs CLE)

Duncan - 18.3/3.8 on .446/---/.625 shooting
Parker - 24.5/3.3 on .568/.571/.526 shooting

as I said above though, in this thread I'm really looking to target only consensus picks

[97 bulls]

Kareem '71, '80

Bird '86

Garnett '08

Duncan, Hakeem, Jordan already mentioned.

Larry Bird? Hell no. Both Mchale and Johnson and Parrish and Ainge were all better.

Garnett wasnt the best offensive player on the '08 Celtics, Pierce was

[fpliii]

Larry Bird? Hell no. Both Mchale and Johnson and Parrish and Ainge were all better.

Garnett wasnt the best offensive player on the '08 Celtics, Pierce was

hey bro

since it's your area of expertise, who in your opinion was the best offensive/defensive player on each of the Bulls teams (championship years mostly, but I'm actually interested in hearing your thoughts for every year from 84-98)

[fpliii]

does everybody agree about 71 Kareem?

also, is anybody opposed to adding 95 Hakeem and 05 Duncan to the list in the OP?

[97 bulls]

hey bro

since it's your area of expertise, who in your opinion was the best offensive/defensive player on each of the Bulls teams (championship years mostly, but I'm actually interested in hearing your thoughts for every year from 84-98)

I vaguely remember the Bulls from 84. But id say Jordan was the Bulls best defender from the time he was drafted to about 92. Then he and Pippen were even. Up until 96. Then Pippen assumed the role. I feel jordan was still a great Defender through 98, but he no longer needed to exert so much energy with Ron Harper there.

[JohnnySic]

Kareem '71, '80

Bird '86

Garnett '08

Duncan, Hakeem, Jordan already mentioned.

I'd go with Dennis Johnson as the best defender on that team.