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Old 08-29-2012, 12:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Had they never gotten Melo, the Nuggets would be the Clips.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Location and money have nothing to do with winning.

Denver went 8 years without making the playoffs, and had never gotten past the second round before Carmelo Anthony showed up.



My vote goes to the Milwaukee Bucks though. Probably the most forgotten franchise in the NBA.

Having a large market, ensures that you can spend as much as you want and incur the luxury tax and still be profitable. NY is a location, and many players would want the fame and accolades that go along with succeeding in NY. It's amazing the Knicks arent up there with the lakers.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Raptors when we drafted Bargani and im from Toronto
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

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Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
Having a large market, ensures that you can spend as much as you want and incur the luxury tax and still be profitable. NY is a location, and many players would want the fame and accolades that go along with succeeding in NY. It's amazing the Knicks arent up there with the lakers.

Kind of like the Clippers, right? Big market = winning franchise.


The NBA's CBA is built specifically to prevent the large markets from flexing their wallets. Otherwise how would a team like the Spurs or Thunder ever have success?
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Location and money have nothing to do with winning.

Denver went 8 years without making the playoffs, and had never gotten past the second round before Carmelo Anthony showed up.



My vote goes to the Milwaukee Bucks though. Probably the most forgotten franchise in the NBA.

Yeah Dolan being willing to spend whatever means nothing. Melo wanting to go play for NY instead of wanting to play for Milwaukee means nothing. Not like NY showed they were winners anytime recently. Good management is far more important than location, but different teams have different budgets and certain players will always prefer a certain location over others.

PHX couldn't do what the Lakers are doing right now. They wouldn't be paying Nash, Kobe, Howard, Pau with the new lux tax rules.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Yeah Dolan being willing to spend whatever means nothing. Melo wanting to go play for NY instead of wanting to play for Milwaukee means nothing. Not like NY showed they were winners anytime recently. Good management is far more important than location, but different teams have different budgets and certain players will always prefer a certain location over others.

PHX couldn't do what the Lakers are doing right now. They wouldn't be paying Nash, Kobe, Howard, Pau with the new lux tax rules.


Did the Rockets not just sign Jeremy Lin away from the Knicks, and did the Knicks decide not to match because of a poison pill payment?

What happened to "spend whatever"?


Phoenix couldn't do what the Lakers are doing, but Portland could. Is Portland big?
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Kind of like the Clippers, right? Big market = winning franchise.


The NBA's CBA is built specifically to prevent the large markets from flexing their wallets. Otherwise how would a team like the Spurs or Thunder ever have success?

Dude it's pretty simple. Why was Melo asking for a trade to NY and not Indiana? Why was Howard asking to go to L.A or Brooklyn instead of Denver or Milwaukee?

Certain players will always prefer to play in the bigger, more popular markets than the smaller ones. Forget living in New York instead of Minny, but they simply make more money off endorsements. Won't happen 10\10 times but it's still an advantage.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:48 PM   #23
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Did the Rockets not just sign Jeremy Lin away from the Knicks, and did the Knicks decide not to match because of a poison pill payment?

What happened to "spend whatever"?

Clearly you just started watching the New York Knicks. Probably didn't match Lin because they've seen what happens when you just throw money at unproven players or risky guy's. That's good management, which I've already said is waaaaay more important than market.

Kidding yourself if the move was 100% money. NY will go into lux tax way before a team like PHX will. They won't sell their draft picks off or not re-sign players like other owners have shown.

I don't get why people get so upset over this. It's not a huge deal, but there's an advantage. You can overcome it with a good FO like S.A and OKC have done, mainly with hitting on your picks and getting those big time players. Minnesota won't attract players like New York, that's a fact. If both teams are run to perfection .. a guy like Carmelo wants NY 10\10 over Minny.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Dude it's pretty simple. Why was Melo asking for a trade to NY and not Indiana? Why was Howard asking to go to L.A or Brooklyn instead of Denver or Milwaukee?

Certain players will always prefer to play in the bigger, more popular markets than the smaller ones. Forget living in New York instead of Minny, but they simply make more money off endorsements. Won't happen 10\10 times but it's still an advantage.


Anecdotal evidence does not prove that all stars want to play in big markets.

For every Melo or Dwight, there is a Duncan or Durant.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:53 PM   #25
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Clearly you just started watching the New York Knicks. Probably didn't match Lin because they've seen what happens when you just throw money at unproven players or risky guy's. That's good management, which I've already said is waaaaay more important than market.

Kidding yourself if the move was 100% money. NY will go into lux tax way before a team like PHX will. They won't sell their draft picks off or not re-sign players like other owners have shown.

I don't get why people get so upset over this. It's not a huge deal, but there's an advantage. You can overcome it with a good FO like S.A and OKC have done, mainly with hitting on your picks and getting those big time players. Minnesota won't attract players like New York, that's a fact. If both teams are run to perfection .. a guy like Carmelo wants NY 10\10 over Minny.


Signing Lin would have made ZERO impact on the cap, and their ability to sign other players. The decision to not sign him was purely financial, and had to do with not wanting to pay $50 million in luxury tax on him. The Knicks are over the cap till 2014, and that is when his contract would have been through. Again, signing him would have no effect on any other players.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:54 PM   #26
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

I'd like to think that most of the time athletes will stay on a team with smart management that at least tries to make them a contender. How often has a player walked away from a title contender just because they were in a small market?
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:57 PM   #27
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Anecdotal evidence does not prove that all stars want to play in big markets.

For every Melo or Dwight, there is a Duncan or Durant.

Duncan or Durant haven't forced a trade tho? I don't get it. Some players will simply not do what Melo or Dwight did, not because of market. I'm not saying every single player wants to play in a big market. I've never heard of a player forcing his way to Minny tho.

Whatever. NY has no advantage. Having an owner who has showed that money isn't an option. Playing in one of the best cities in the entire world doesn't matter one bit. Making waaaay more money off endorsements\having your popularity skyrocket doesn't mean anything. Wasn't Nate Robinson in top 10 for jersey sales when he played for NY? That's f*cking crazy.

Not everything is an extreme example, and good FO is far more important than anything else and market size isn't a reason why a team will fail or succeed. Doesn't mean they don't get a little push for time to time. Denver Nuggets haven't had a superstar saying I only want to play for you guy's trade me there. NY has. That alone shows NY has had one advantage due to market.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:00 PM   #28
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

All the money from jersey sales is evenly distributed to all 30 teams.

How many times has Grant Hill talked to the Knicks about signing, and then signed elsewhere? I can't even keep count anymore.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:00 PM   #29
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Signing Lin would have made ZERO impact on the cap, and their ability to sign other players. The decision to not sign him was purely financial, and had to do with not wanting to pay $50 million in luxury tax on him. The Knicks are over the cap till 2014, and that is when his contract would have been through. Again, signing him would have no effect on any other players.

Except for when your paying a guy a ridiculous contract for half a season worth of good play? I don't understand why NY didn't sign him for the reasons listed but James Dolan isn't afraid of opening up his check book. Maybe NY's FO just didn't think he was worth it and walked away from a contract for the first time in their life

Either way are you seriously trying to argue with me NY wouldn't pay the lux tax or that they wouldn't spend more money than a team like PHX? Seriously are you that f*cking stupid? .. New York Knicks, been saving money since '01
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Worst NBA Franchise Not Named the Clippers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Duncan or Durant haven't forced a trade tho? I don't get it. Some players will simply not do what Melo or Dwight did, not because of market. I'm not saying every single player wants to play in a big market. I've never heard of a player forcing his way to Minny tho.

Whatever. NY has no advantage. Having an owner who has showed that money isn't an option. Playing in one of the best cities in the entire world doesn't matter one bit. Making waaaay more money off endorsements\having your popularity skyrocket doesn't mean anything. Wasn't Nate Robinson in top 10 for jersey sales when he played for NY? That's f*cking crazy.

Not everything is an extreme example, and good FO is far more important than anything else and market size isn't a reason why a team will fail or succeed. Doesn't mean they don't get a little push for time to time. Denver Nuggets haven't had a superstar saying I only want to play for you guy's trade me there. NY has. That alone shows NY has had one advantage due to market.


Melo ONLY wanted to go to the Knicks because they cleared so much space by tanking for TWO years, and had Amar'e Stoudemire.


He never made any mention of his desire to play in NY before any of that happened.
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