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Old 08-19-2012, 07:08 AM   #31
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Yao was a much better passer. Not sure his peak stats but if we are asking can Bynum do 20+ 10+? Sure. Passing however/assists I don't know. He has his work cut out for him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by longtime lurker
In all honesty I think he averages a shade under 20 pts, 10 boards and 2 blocks. I don't think his numbers will be all that different from the Lakers considering Philly is a team that likes to spread the ball.

They spread ball around because there was no go to scorer. And they ranked smog the bottom of the league in post offense. This changes when you bring Bynum who will be the focal point of your offense. To think Sixers will play the same way offensively simply won't happen now that you added a dominant interior scorer who overnight improves your putrid halfcourt offense.

Bynum is also a in a contract year and I can't recall one player not taking advantage statistically. Speaking in terms of good players. Being the Sixers #1 option will automatically increase his ppg. His FG % will take a hit and I believe he will go to the FT line more than he has as a Laker.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:19 AM   #32
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Yep, contract year for Bynum, good point. 22 and 11 is my prediction. Turner should also produce with more minutes. Pulling for the sixers to be contenders.
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Old 08-19-2012, 09:03 AM   #33
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

A lot of people saying Philly's style doesn't fit around Bynum. Philly doesn't have a "style" anymore, the players that created it are gone.

Out:
Iggy
Brand
Lou
Meeks
Vucevic
Battie


In:
Bynum
N. Young
D. Wright
Kwame
Ivey
Moultrie

It's a roster overhaul. The only returning player that caters more to a fast break pace is Thad Young, and even he's gone up from 215 to 229 this summer.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:17 PM   #34
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Well, statistically, he might be able to. He already topped Yao's rebounding and FG% last season, while shot blocking is about the same, but scoring is the main issue since Yao averaged 25, and was at 27/10 before his injury in late December.

He put up 19/12/2 on 56 FG% last season as a clear second option(though he should have been the 3rd option). It's tough to say if he'll stay healthy, and if he does, will he only improve as a player, or will it show in his individual numbers too? I don't think his numbers last year were a fluke either. Remember in 2009-2010 when Gasol was out for the first 11 games. Bynum played in 9 of those games and averaged 20/12 on 59%. Not the biggest sample size, but it looked like he was doing it fairly easily, it didn't look like some hot streak or anything.

Any time you have a player close to 20 ppg on 55% shooting you have a player with special scoring ability.

We'll have to see how he handles being the primary focusing of opposing defenses. Whether it was with Gasol or Bynum being more featured these last few years in LA, it was a unique situation because Kobe actually received more defensive attention than either all-star big man, which is rarely the case with a perimeter player.

Bynum being a legitimate 7'1" with a wingspan of at least 7'6" alone is a huge advantage. He also has excellent body control for his size and a good post game with several consistent moves and a nice touch 10 feet and in.

The one thing that disappoints me is that he's already clearly lost quickness and overall athleticism due to the knee injuries. I'd love to see Bynum now with the explosiveness he had in '07-'08.

He has the ability to score a lot, he's in a role that will allow him to do that, and while can be both good and bad, he has the mindset.

So 25 ppg is plausible, imo, but I don't think he'll do it next season. And I don't know if he'll ever do it, I have my doubts, I just think it was possible. If he's healthy, though. He should get to the point where he's regularly putting up about 20/10 or better with 2+ bpg while topping 50% shooting if he's Philly's franchise player.

Now how far a team can go with Bynum as their franchise player is another issue. Of course, franchise player to me is different than just best player. You don't necessarily have to be a top 10 or even 15 player to win as the best player if you're on a stacked team. Portland should have won in 2000 if not for an improbable choke job, and the Sonics had everything you could ask for in '93.

But a franchise player to me is when you have a player who you build your team around, you rely on him instead of having 4-5 or even more scoring options who you pretty much divide the scoring between fairly evenly.

As for being as good of a player as Yao was in '07? That I'm more skeptical of. I think Yao just had the potential to be better, and he was showing it in '07, unfortunately, the injury that prevented his '07 season from being even better was a freak injury when he landed on a Clipper player's foot. He did recover from that injury and return healthy in plenty of the time for the playoffs, but Yao and T-Mac missed a golden opportunity to beat Utah as they should have and had an almosrt guaranteed trip to the conference finals thanks to the Warriors upsetting Dallas.

I'd also like to see Bynum put in more effort defensively. He has the ability to have a major impact defensively. Just based on being a massive shot blocker, he can have an impact at that end, but I want to see his defense more like the second half of the '10-'11 season. Bynum's role was only defense, rebounding and finishing at that point and he sparked the Lakers to their best stretch of an up and down season. It's still probably the most effective I've seen him as far as helping his team win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yung D-Will
Mchale made this quote during last season, so do you think he'll improve his passing out of double teams throughout the season?

That quote is really good. It usually is the final step in the maturation of a post player. Passing and handling double teams. It's the biggest reason why Hakeem went up a tier over any level he had played at prior to '92-'93 despite being 29/30 by that point. It's because Rudy T running a 4 out/1 in type of system with everything running through Hakeem in the post, not just to score, but to draw doubles and set up shooters really made him become more unselfish, made that all important leap for a superstar to make his teammates better, and showcased a skill that he hadn't taken advantage of.

Similarly, Shaq became an excellent passer throughout his career, peaking during the 3peat, which was also essential with the triangle revolving around him. He now had to fit his game into the system, instead of just playing how he wanted and working to get the shot he wanted, he was now asked to get good position and make a quick move, and pass out to re-post, or find a shooter when doubled, and also find cutters, which he excelled at. He was actually a good passer by '95, and Orlando's offense was pretty similar to what Hakeem's Rockets did under Rudy T in Houston with the sort of 4 out/1 in with shooters, and no other post player.

There are other examples too, almost every great post player becomes a good to great passer.Many improve significantly too such as Shaq, and especially Hakeem.

Granted, there are some like Moses who dominate without ever becoming a good passer. In fact, he was the clear best player for 2 seasons in '82 and '83, yet he either couldn't or wouldn't pass.

Last season, I also saw Dwight finally make a significant improvement passing and handling double teams to the point where it's not an issue to me if he keeps it up. Despite 2011 being easily his best season, he still often struggled handling double teams, and it was his biggest weakness.

It's definitely something that Bynum can improve, and we have to remember that last season was the first year Bynum really saw double teams. As of now, Bynum's unwillingness or inability to pass is why I wouldn't be crazy about running my offense through him, but the more he gets used to teams gameplanning to stop him, the better he has a chance to become. The potential is there, no reason he can't at least become a decent passer, which is all he needs with his scoring ability, especially if you add in 12 boards per game. Half the battle is Bynum wanting to pass.

While Bynum has played 7 seasons, he hasn't had all of the opportunities he needs to reach his potential. He didn't even really play his first season, he's had so many injuries since then, and he was usually the 3rd option at best, sometimes more like the 4th or 5th option because it was best for the team.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:26 PM   #35
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Well, statistically, he might be able to. He already topped Yao's rebounding and FG% last season, while shot blocking is about the same, but scoring is the main issue since Yao averaged 25, and was at 27/10 before his injury in late December.

He put up 19/12/2 on 56 FG% last season as a clear second option(though he should have been the 3rd option). It's tough to say if he'll stay healthy, and if he does, will he only improve as a player, or will it show in his individual numbers too? I don't think his numbers last year were a fluke either. Remember in 2009-2010 when Gasol was out for the first 11 games. Bynum played in 9 of those games and averaged 20/12 on 59%. Not the biggest sample size, but it looked like he was doing it fairly easily, it didn't look like some hot streak or anything.

Any time you have a player close to 20 ppg on 55% shooting you have a player with special scoring ability.

We'll have to see how he handles being the primary focusing of opposing defenses. Whether it was with Gasol or Bynum being more featured these last few years in LA, it was a unique situation because Kobe actually received more defensive attention than either all-star big man, which is rarely the case with a perimeter player.

Bynum being a legitimate 7'1" with a wingspan of at least 7'6" alone is a huge advantage. He also has excellent body control for his size and a good post game with several consistent moves and a nice touch 10 feet and in.

The one thing that disappoints me is that he's already clearly lost quickness and overall athleticism due to the knee injuries. I'd love to see Bynum now with the explosiveness he had in '07-'08.

He has the ability to score a lot, he's in a role that will allow him to do that, and while can be both good and bad, he has the mindset.

So 25 ppg is plausible, imo, but I don't think he'll do it next season. And I don't know if he'll ever do it, I have my doubts, I just think it was possible. If he's healthy, though. He should get to the point where he's regularly putting up about 20/10 or better with 2+ bpg while topping 50% shooting if he's Philly's franchise player.

Now how far a team can go with Bynum as their franchise player is another issue. Of course, franchise player to me is different than just best player. You don't necessarily have to be a top 10 or even 15 player to win as the best player if you're on a stacked team. Portland should have won in 2000 if not for an improbable choke job, and the Sonics had everything you could ask for in '93.

But a franchise player to me is when you have a player who you build your team around, you rely on him instead of having 4-5 or even more scoring options who you pretty much divide the scoring between fairly evenly.

As for being as good of a player as Yao was in '07? That I'm more skeptical of. I think Yao just had the potential to be better, and he was showing it in '07, unfortunately, the injury that prevented his '07 season from being even better was a freak injury when he landed on a Clipper player's foot. He did recover from that injury and return healthy in plenty of the time for the playoffs, but Yao and T-Mac missed a golden opportunity to beat Utah as they should have and had an almosrt guaranteed trip to the conference finals thanks to the Warriors upsetting Dallas.

I'd also like to see Bynum put in more effort defensively. He has the ability to have a major impact defensively. Just based on being a massive shot blocker, he can have an impact at that end, but I want to see his defense more like the second half of the '10-'11 season. Bynum's role was only defense, rebounding and finishing at that point and he sparked the Lakers to their best stretch of an up and down season. It's still probably the most effective I've seen him as far as helping his team win.



That quote is really good. It usually is the final step in the maturation of a post player. Passing and handling double teams. It's the biggest reason why Hakeem went up a tier over any level he had played at prior to '92-'93 despite being 29/30 by that point. It's because Rudy T running a 4 out/1 in type of system with everything running through Hakeem in the post, not just to score, but to draw doubles and set up shooters really made him become more unselfish, made that all important leap for a superstar to make his teammates better, and showcased a skill that he hadn't taken advantage of.

Similarly, Shaq became an excellent passer throughout his career, peaking during the 3peat, which was also essential with the triangle revolving around him. He now had to fit his game into the system, instead of just playing how he wanted and working to get the shot he wanted, he was now asked to get good position and make a quick move, and pass out to re-post, or find a shooter when doubled, and also find cutters, which he excelled at. He was actually a good passer by '95, and Orlando's offense was pretty similar to what Hakeem's Rockets did under Rudy T in Houston with the sort of 4 out/1 in with shooters, and no other post player.

There are other examples too, almost every great post player becomes a good to great passer.Many improve significantly too such as Shaq, and especially Hakeem.

Granted, there are some like Moses who dominate without ever becoming a good passer. In fact, he was the clear best player for 2 seasons in '82 and '83, yet he either couldn't or wouldn't pass.

Last season, I also saw Dwight finally make a significant improvement passing and handling double teams to the point where it's not an issue to me if he keeps it up. Despite 2011 being easily his best season, he still often struggled handling double teams, and it was his biggest weakness.

It's definitely something that Bynum can improve, and we have to remember that last season was the first year Bynum really saw double teams. As of now, Bynum's unwillingness or inability to pass is why I wouldn't be crazy about running my offense through him, but the more he gets used to teams gameplanning to stop him, the better he has a chance to become. The potential is there, no reason he can't at least become a decent passer, which is all he needs with his scoring ability, especially if you add in 12 boards per game. Half the battle is Bynum wanting to pass.

While Bynum has played 7 seasons, he hasn't had all of the opportunities he needs to reach his potential. He didn't even really play his first season, he's had so many injuries since then, and he was usually the 3rd option at best, sometimes more like the 4th or 5th option because it was best for the team.

Bolder for the truth.
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:30 PM   #36
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Well, statistically, he might be able to. He already topped Yao's rebounding and FG% last season, while shot blocking is about the same, but scoring is the main issue since Yao averaged 25, and was at 27/10 before his injury in late December.

He put up 19/12/2 on 56 FG% last season as a clear second option(though he should have been the 3rd option). It's tough to say if he'll stay healthy, and if he does, will he only improve as a player, or will it show in his individual numbers too? I don't think his numbers last year were a fluke either. Remember in 2009-2010 when Gasol was out for the first 11 games. Bynum played in 9 of those games and averaged 20/12 on 59%. Not the biggest sample size, but it looked like he was doing it fairly easily, it didn't look like some hot streak or anything.

Any time you have a player close to 20 ppg on 55% shooting you have a player with special scoring ability.

We'll have to see how he handles being the primary focusing of opposing defenses. Whether it was with Gasol or Bynum being more featured these last few years in LA, it was a unique situation because Kobe actually received more defensive attention than either all-star big man, which is rarely the case with a perimeter player.

Bynum being a legitimate 7'1" with a wingspan of at least 7'6" alone is a huge advantage. He also has excellent body control for his size and a good post game with several consistent moves and a nice touch 10 feet and in.

The one thing that disappoints me is that he's already clearly lost quickness and overall athleticism due to the knee injuries. I'd love to see Bynum now with the explosiveness he had in '07-'08.

He has the ability to score a lot, he's in a role that will allow him to do that, and while can be both good and bad, he has the mindset.

So 25 ppg is plausible, imo, but I don't think he'll do it next season. And I don't know if he'll ever do it, I have my doubts, I just think it was possible. If he's healthy, though. He should get to the point where he's regularly putting up about 20/10 or better with 2+ bpg while topping 50% shooting if he's Philly's franchise player.

Now how far a team can go with Bynum as their franchise player is another issue. Of course, franchise player to me is different than just best player. You don't necessarily have to be a top 10 or even 15 player to win as the best player if you're on a stacked team. Portland should have won in 2000 if not for an improbable choke job, and the Sonics had everything you could ask for in '93.

But a franchise player to me is when you have a player who you build your team around, you rely on him instead of having 4-5 or even more scoring options who you pretty much divide the scoring between fairly evenly.

As for being as good of a player as Yao was in '07? That I'm more skeptical of. I think Yao just had the potential to be better, and he was showing it in '07, unfortunately, the injury that prevented his '07 season from being even better was a freak injury when he landed on a Clipper player's foot. He did recover from that injury and return healthy in plenty of the time for the playoffs, but Yao and T-Mac missed a golden opportunity to beat Utah as they should have and had an almosrt guaranteed trip to the conference finals thanks to the Warriors upsetting Dallas.

I'd also like to see Bynum put in more effort defensively. He has the ability to have a major impact defensively. Just based on being a massive shot blocker, he can have an impact at that end, but I want to see his defense more like the second half of the '10-'11 season. Bynum's role was only defense, rebounding and finishing at that point and he sparked the Lakers to their best stretch of an up and down season. It's still probably the most effective I've seen him as far as helping his team win.



That quote is really good. It usually is the final step in the maturation of a post player. Passing and handling double teams. It's the biggest reason why Hakeem went up a tier over any level he had played at prior to '92-'93 despite being 29/30 by that point. It's because Rudy T running a 4 out/1 in type of system with everything running through Hakeem in the post, not just to score, but to draw doubles and set up shooters really made him become more unselfish, made that all important leap for a superstar to make his teammates better, and showcased a skill that he hadn't taken advantage of.

Similarly, Shaq became an excellent passer throughout his career, peaking during the 3peat, which was also essential with the triangle revolving around him. He now had to fit his game into the system, instead of just playing how he wanted and working to get the shot he wanted, he was now asked to get good position and make a quick move, and pass out to re-post, or find a shooter when doubled, and also find cutters, which he excelled at. He was actually a good passer by '95, and Orlando's offense was pretty similar to what Hakeem's Rockets did under Rudy T in Houston with the sort of 4 out/1 in with shooters, and no other post player.

There are other examples too, almost every great post player becomes a good to great passer.Many improve significantly too such as Shaq, and especially Hakeem.

Granted, there are some like Moses who dominate without ever becoming a good passer. In fact, he was the clear best player for 2 seasons in '82 and '83, yet he either couldn't or wouldn't pass.

Last season, I also saw Dwight finally make a significant improvement passing and handling double teams to the point where it's not an issue to me if he keeps it up. Despite 2011 being easily his best season, he still often struggled handling double teams, and it was his biggest weakness.

It's definitely something that Bynum can improve, and we have to remember that last season was the first year Bynum really saw double teams. As of now, Bynum's unwillingness or inability to pass is why I wouldn't be crazy about running my offense through him, but the more he gets used to teams gameplanning to stop him, the better he has a chance to become. The potential is there, no reason he can't at least become a decent passer, which is all he needs with his scoring ability, especially if you add in 12 boards per game. Half the battle is Bynum wanting to pass.

While Bynum has played 7 seasons, he hasn't had all of the opportunities he needs to reach his potential. He didn't even really play his first season, he's had so many injuries since then, and he was usually the 3rd option at best, sometimes more like the 4th or 5th option because it was best for the team.


Agreed, guess I'm interested in seeing how it'll pan out.
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Old 08-19-2012, 03:00 PM   #37
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

My guess is, he probably won't score 25 a game like Yao (then again he's playing in the East...), he's not yet consistent enough. He'll have his share of huge games though, and will average more rebounds per contest.
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:47 PM   #38
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yung D-Will
Agreed, guess I'm interested in seeing how it'll pan out.

Yeah, I can't wait to see how Bynum does as well as the Sixers team. They have some question marks, but nobody is expecting them to contend right now anyway. I have no idea how Philly is going to do even assuming they have a healthy Bynum. They do have a very nice amount of capable scorers around him such as Thaddeus, Nick Young, Jrue Holiday and possibly J-Rich. I'm not sold on Dorrell Wright, but he did become a legit shooter in Golden State so they'll have at least 3 guys capable of making 2 threes per game alongside Bynum in Richardson, Nick Young and Wright. Holiday is also a capable 3 point shooter.

He doesn't have any great players around him. Thaddeus is the best scorer, while Nick Young has the best chance to go on a scoring streak and Jrue is probably the most well rounded for his position.

Depth at power forward, point guard and small forward are real question marks to me. Arnett Moultrie is very athletic for a big man, but I'm not betting on him being able to contribute in his rookie season because he seems raw and not strong enough to deal with NBA power forwards. Is Royal Ivey going to back up Jrue at point guard? And is Richardson going to see quite a bit of time at small forward?

Either way, we'll be in for a great season, much better than last season as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:52 PM   #39
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateProperty
It's a roster overhaul. The only returning player that caters more to a fast break pace is Thad Young, and even he's gone up from 215 to 229 this summer.

Bulking up to play PF I see.
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:53 PM   #40
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yung D-Will
If your best player is a half court player, clearly you're going to slow the pace. Iggy was awful in the half court lol.

Anyhow no ones answering the question, which is whether Bynum's production will be similar to a healthy Yao mings.
27/13 60% 2 blocks a game are prime bynum numbers IMO
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:59 PM   #41
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

The thing about Bynum that bothered me was how immobile he is. To me that is what separates him from Howard. He is extremely slow which affects all aspects of his game. It makes it impossible to play pick & roll, he can't defend the pick & roll, his defense isn't as good as Howard because he was slow to protect the rim, and you must play in a half court set with him/ no fast break points.

So in Philly they have a lot of players who like to run & Bynum is the complete opposite of that. Philly didn't give up a lot to get him (Andre's contract was huge & he wasn't a necessary player anymore) so I think it was a low risk/ high return trade for them. But if Philly fans are expecting Bynum to emerge as a consistent top C without any other superstar players like Gasol & Kobe to make things easier for him than they are in for a rude awakening.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:38 PM   #42
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Shaqattack, about mobility, I think it was after that 2007-2008 season where he decided to bulk up and put on muscle, and everyone came into next season shocked at how much bigger he was. So after that I was never sure if him being slower was a result of injuries, or just the fact he decided to become bigger so he could dominate inside.
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Old 08-19-2012, 09:04 PM   #43
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Hell no.
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Old 08-19-2012, 09:49 PM   #44
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

F.uck yeah.

If Drew is healthy (I know) I wouldnt past him to put up 25/12/2 blocks as a 1st option. Drew is a beast.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:51 PM   #45
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Default Re: Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ(Mean John)
F.uck yeah.

If Drew is healthy (I know) I wouldnt past him to put up 25/12/2 blocks as a 1st option. Drew is a beast.


24 ppg, 13 rpg, and at least 3.0 bpg.
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