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Old 11-15-2013, 06:44 PM   #301
GOBB
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
You should be p!ssed about Vucevic. I know I would be... He looks like, at the very least, a solid starting piece in this league for a long time with the potential to be more. Harkless is Harkless... But it's the part where you basically forfeited them for nothing that makes it a terrible trade.

Why should I be pissed? He's not the rim protector I envision at Center like Noel can be. I'll bank on his potential after being shelved (as he should) for an entire season. Just get stronger and I'm happy with a Marcus Camby like defender/rebounder. And icing on cake would be if he could develop a little midrange jumper ala Theo Ratliff did.

Quote:
The Sixers have been smart about all their other moves. I loved the trade they made with the Pels, liked the MCW pick... I do think they need to try harder to tank, because with this draft, they're one Julius Randle or Andrew Wiggins away from being set up for the next 15 years.

Definitely need a top 3 pick or this Bynum deal was a disaster. Fingers are crossed. Hopefully Hinkie can pull another Harden like trade using our cap space/assets.

Quote:
In other words, I wouldn't be bragging about a good record at this point. If the Cavs aren't going to make the playoffs, I'd rather them REALLY stink to ensure another Top 4 pick. You should do the same.

But remember I told you in this thread I believe or maybe another. The Cavs shouldnt be living in the lottery any more especially top 4 pick as you suggest. You guys spent how much time there? Tristan Thompson, Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters, Anthony Bennett now if no playoffs you hope for a top 4 pick? What? You lost me there. Which is why I half heatedly poked fun at the Sixers having a better record than the Cavs. Its like what the Sixers have done in 9gms is what Cleveland should be doing at this point. I would trade records today. And if by some BS scenerio where Cavs are winning less games than Sixers this time in March? I'd give up a f*cking finger to swap records.

I'll be livid if Sixers dont land a top 3 pick.
I'll laugh and make a thread or just bump this one if Cavs are in the lottery again.


Quote:
I assume you want a serious answer?

New coaching staff installing a new system with a group of guys who either haven't played together at all or barely played together in the last year (Kyrie/Dion/Varejao very little experience together and healthy). Also, it's the second youngest roster in the NBA and that usually results in struggling on the road but being better at home. It just so happens the schedule has started out very road heavy.

Cavs are 3-0 at home, 0-6 on the road.

There you have it.

Thanks

Hopefully seasons end Sixers are in position to draft top 3. Cavs are in the playoffs. Long season but I had to poke fun at the Sixers winning more games with their roster vs Cavs (with Bynum).
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:06 PM   #302
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Why should I be pissed? He's not the rim protector I envision at Center like Noel can be. I'll bank on his potential after being shelved (as he should) for an entire season. Just get stronger and I'm happy with a Marcus Camby like defender/rebounder. And icing on cake would be if he could develop a little midrange jumper ala Theo Ratliff did.
But, you'd rather have Noel and Vucevic, right? Not including him in that deal or pulling out all together would not have prevented the Sixers from being in the exact position they are now, unless you think having Vucevic/Harkless on the roster last year would have resulted in them winning a lot more games, screwing up the draft picks and everything that happened thereafter.

Of course you'd rather have Vucevic/Harkless on the roster right now as opposed to watching Bynum toil in the rehab room for a season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Definitely need a top 3 pick or this Bynum deal was a disaster. Fingers are crossed. Hopefully Hinkie can pull another Harden like trade using our cap space/assets.

I'm not really seeing the connection. They could have rebuilt and still vied for a Top 3 pick this year without giving up young talent for a guy who never played. I agree, they need a Top 3 pick, but regardless the Bynum trade was a disaster. It was the other good moves they've made which has helped cushion the blow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
But remember I told you in this thread I believe or maybe another. The Cavs shouldnt be living in the lottery any more especially top 4 pick as you suggest. You guys spent how much time there? Tristan Thompson, Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters, Anthony Bennett now if no playoffs you hope for a top 4 pick? What? You lost me there. Which is why I half heatedly poked fun at the Sixers having a better record than the Cavs. Its like what the Sixers have done in 9gms is what Cleveland should be doing at this point. I would trade records today. And if by some BS scenerio where Cavs are winning less games than Sixers this time in March? I'd give up a f*cking finger to swap records.

I said "if we don't make the playoffs," I hope we really stink and get another high pick. Being in the late lottery is exactly where every team shouldn't want to be, especially in a draft that might have 5-6 legitimate franchise altering talents at the top of the board.

On top of that, the Cavs desperately need to address the SF spot. This just happens to be a draft with a couple of the best SF prospects to come out since 2003 (assuming they all enter the draft).

So, yeah... It will be a major disappointment if the Cavs aren't competing for a playoff spot this season. But, if we're not going to be in there, give me Wiggins or Parker and I'm not too upset about it.


Kyrie Irving / Jarrett Jack
Dion Waiters / CJ Miles / Sergey Karasev
Andrew Wiggins / Alonzo Gee / Earl Clark
Tristan Thompson / Anthony Bennett
Andrew Bynum / Anderson Varejao / Tyler Zeller


Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 11-15-2013 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:39 PM   #303
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
But, you'd rather have Noel and Vucevic, right? Not including him in that deal or pulling out all together would not have prevented the Sixers from being in the exact position they are now, unless you think having Vucevic/Harkless on the roster last year would have resulted in them winning a lot more games, screwing up the draft picks and everything that happened thereafter.

That is hindsight (Noel/Vucevic). Knowing what I know now I still do the trade as if. Get rid of Iggy contract, sacrifice two prospects for a big who can go 2 ways. One he is your franchise player, the guy arguably the best Center in the game. That was one scenerio which is why some mags had Sixers a top 4 team out East. Or it could go two, it backfires and you arent locked in with Bynum. You arent locked in with Iggy deal. You are now rebuilding and moving beyond being stuck in mediocrity as you have for nearly a decade.

See people think the Bynum deal was one way. Either he was our savior or ha ha jokes on you Sixers. No it was a risky move that had two outcomes I welcomed. Either he helped or this was the Sixers chance to actually rebuild.

We are rebuilding. I'm happy with that. If the second outcome resulted in the Sixers still being stuck in the land of mediocrity? I would deem the trade a disaster. Luckily that isnt the case today.

Quote:
Of course you'd rather have Vucevic/Harkless on the roster right now as opposed to watching Bynum toil in the rehab room for a season.

Not even. Some Sixers fans are upset at Vucevic being dealt. I'm not. I'm happy for the guy to get a chance to perform without Doug Collins breaking his balls. But he isnt anything special I should be second guessing at all.

When I think of the Sixers future I dont envision what if Vucevic was in the middle. I think of Noel and a PF be it thru trade or draft. Noel/Vucevic combo doesnt move me any.

Quote:
I'm not really seeing the connection. They could have rebuilt and still vied for a Top 3 pick this year without giving up young talent for a guy who never played. I agree, they need a Top 3 pick, but regardless the Bynum trade was a disaster. It was the other good moves they've made which has helped cushion the blow.

No they wouldnt have. Would have been a 7-8 seed/late lottery team. History of the draft shows teams in the 1-9 range have a good chance at drafting top 3. After 9 you draft where you are positioned.


Quote:
I said "if we don't make the playoffs," I hope we really stink and get another high pick. Being in the late lottery is exactly where every team shouldn't want to be, especially in a draft that might have 5-6 legitimate franchise altering talents at the top of the board.

On top of that, the Cavs desperately need to address the SF spot. This just happens to be a draft with a couple of the best SF prospects to come out since 2003 (assuming they all enter the draft).

So, yeah... It will be a major disappointment if the Cavs aren't competing for a playoff spot this season. But, if we're not going to be in there, give me Wiggins or Parker and I'm not too upset about it.


Kyrie Irving / Jarrett Jack
Dion Waiters / CJ Miles / Sergey Karasev
Andrew Wiggins / Alonzo Gee / Earl Clark
Tristan Thompson / Anthony Bennett
Andrew Bynum / Anderson Varejao / Tyler Zeller


How many lottery picks at the top of the draft do the Cavs need to finally make the playoffs? All I want to know. Its premature to assume they will tho. But it would be a disappointment to you if they dont make the playoffs. For me? Laughable because of how many top prospects Cavs collected since the Decision.

Here we are a Sixers team put together over night with 1 yr deals, team options, expirers and a coach hired in August is playing better than the Cavs with Bynum whom you guys gave up little to nothing to add.

Come March me and you shouldnt be having a conversation about our teams in the lottery. I should, you shouldnt. Afterall this trade was a disaster for us, I'd hate to see your Cavs not as good as my Sixers. You know I will bring the nutcracker out dont you? Cavs better make the playoffs or else.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:04 PM   #304
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
That is hindsight (Noel/Vucevic). Knowing what I know now I still do the trade as if. Get rid of Iggy contract, sacrifice two prospects for a big who can go 2 ways. One he is your franchise player, the guy arguably the best Center in the game. That was one scenerio which is why some mags had Sixers a top 4 team out East. Or it could go two, it backfires and you arent locked in with Bynum. You arent locked in with Iggy deal. You are now rebuilding and moving beyond being stuck in mediocrity as you have for nearly a decade.

See people think the Bynum deal was one way. Either he was our savior or ha ha jokes on you Sixers. No it was a risky move that had two outcomes I welcomed. Either he helped or this was the Sixers chance to actually rebuild.

We are rebuilding. I'm happy with that. If the second outcome resulted in the Sixers still being stuck in the land of mediocrity? I would deem the trade a disaster. Luckily that isnt the case today.



Not even. Some Sixers fans are upset at Vucevic being dealt. I'm not. I'm happy for the guy to get a chance to perform without Doug Collins breaking his balls. But he isnt anything special I should be second guessing at all.

When I think of the Sixers future I dont envision what if Vucevic was in the middle. I think of Noel and a PF be it thru trade or draft. Noel/Vucevic combo doesnt move me any.



No they wouldnt have. Would have been a 7-8 seed/late lottery team. History of the draft shows teams in the 1-9 range have a good chance at drafting top 3. After 9 you draft where you are positioned.

Fair enough. I think Vucevic is better than you give him credit for, but if the Bynum deal contributed to them going "all in" on this rebuild (that remains to be seen), I guess you can look at it as something that needed to happen for the good of the franchise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
How many lottery picks at the top of the draft do the Cavs need to finally make the playoffs? All I want to know. Its premature to assume they will tho. But it would be a disappointment to you if they dont make the playoffs. For me? Laughable because of how many top prospects Cavs collected since the Decision.

Here we are a Sixers team put together over night with 1 yr deals, team options, expirers and a coach hired in August is playing better than the Cavs with Bynum whom you guys gave up little to nothing to add.

Come March me and you shouldnt be having a conversation about our teams in the lottery. I should, you shouldnt. Afterall this trade was a disaster for us, I'd hate to see your Cavs not as good as my Sixers. You know I will bring the nutcracker out dont you? Cavs better make the playoffs or else.

There are several things which contribute to the Cavs being in a position that basically no franchise has ever been in over the last three years.

This is a team that lost the best player in the NBA in his absolute prime and got nothing in return. The entire franchise was customized around LeBron James -- from the roster to the freaking practice complex, purposely built just down the road from his house in Bath Township. In retrospect, I can say it was a mistake to put all our eggs in one basket like that, regardless of how awesome that basket was. But, nothing we can do about that now except not making that same mistake twice and the franchise has clearly gone out of its way to add as much young talent as possible so as not to be beholden to one guy.

Still...

The Sixers chose to start rebuilding last year and they set their franchise up to begin that process. Same thing with Orlando, Denver, New Orleans, etc.

The Cavs were forced into a massive rebuild suddenly and against the franchise's best efforts. When you lose the best player in the NBA for a trade exception, it's going to take some time to recover. I actually think, all things considered, they've done a pretty good job.

They've also happened to have all these high picks in drafts that weren't exactly loaded, like the 2014 draft is looking.

It just hasn't resulted in wins yet. Maybe that will start happening this year. If it doesn't, I'll be disappointed. At the same time, I'd be lying if I didn't watch Wiggins and Randle and Parker and Exum and Gordon, etc. with a bit of envy after the drafts we've had high picks in the last few years.

Luck works two ways... It's lucking into high picks with the lottery system and by happening to rebuild when possible once-a-generation type players are coming through the draft.

We've gotten extremely lucky on the former... Not so much on the latter (though I still really like our young team).

J/S

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 11-15-2013 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:24 PM   #305
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

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And yet Sixers have a better record, beat better teams.
Sixers lost Iggy, Harkless, a future first round pick, and Vucevic just to have Bynum try out freaky hair styles for a whole season. Cavs didn't lose anything acquiring Bynum and Bynum has played for them.

Season is only a 1/9 of the way there. Way to knee jerk.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:21 PM   #306
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

Bynum suspended. Heh
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:22 PM   #307
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

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Bynum suspended. Heh

GOBB trying to get some redemption.

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Old 12-28-2013, 12:44 PM   #308
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

Backfire backfired
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:08 PM   #309
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

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GOBB trying to get some redemption.


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Old 12-28-2013, 01:10 PM   #310
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

GOBB always wins
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:15 PM   #311
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

it's not like the cavs gave up any talent for bynum.

They can cut him and just be out only 6 mil, maybe try to trade him.
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:21 PM   #312
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

Gobb
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Old 07-23-2014, 02:05 PM   #313
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

Thoughts on Kevin Love?
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Old 07-23-2014, 02:14 PM   #314
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

OP got owned.
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Old 07-23-2014, 02:14 PM   #315
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Default Re: See Cavs fans? This is how you make a big move

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Not hold onto this unproven talent because you value your assets way too highly. Maybe when your teams balls drop you'll make a gutsy move like the Sixers did. Enjoy rebuilding tho.
like a fine wine, this thread gets better and better with age
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