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Old 11-18-2012, 06:04 PM   #61
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Ill still take the 2 Tim Burton/Michael Keaton Batmans over Nolan/Bale Batmans

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Old 11-19-2012, 10:07 PM   #62
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Ill still take the 2 Tim Burton/Michael Keaton Batmans over Nolan/Bale Batmans
You go right ahead and take them and shove them up your ass as well. No one in their right mind is taking the garbage especially the 2nd one over any of Nolan's Batman's.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:01 AM   #63
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol
Now onto Superman.

Nolan's movement away from the traditional superhero Movie, toward action suspense, is going to be the catalyst for a new type of superhero film that will be popular for a long time.
I cannot wait. The teaser trailer gave me goosebumps.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:02 AM   #64
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Does anyone else think the ending might've been a bit better if the last shot was just Alfred looking up with that slight hint of satisfaction but never actually seeing Bruce? I dunno, sometimes an ambiguous ending makes for more of an emotional impact. I didn't need absolute confirmation that Bruce was still alive.

Fantastic series though. I'm holding out for the supposed "Collector's" edition Blu-ray trilogy that will come out next year.
I would've liked that more yes.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:23 AM   #65
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Meticode
I would've liked that more yes.
yeh but that's too nolan predictable, especially after inception people would've lost their shit if Nolan had done it to them again. i liked the ending, because it close's off bruce waynes story, and if someone wants to come along and do a story on Robin's they're able to.

Remember there's a new Bat-lantern for Commissioner Gordon to use, Robin is given the co-ordinates to the batcave and access to all equipment, so closing off Bruce's story was the best option to allow Robin to have his own (if there ever is one)

Also if there is a deleted scene about banes mask i'll jizz everywhere.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:23 AM   #66
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by Mamba
yeh but that's too nolan predictable, especially after inception people would've lost their shit if Nolan had done it to them again. i liked the ending, because it close's off bruce waynes story, and if someone wants to come along and do a story on Robin's they're able to.

Remember there's a new Bat-lantern for Commissioner Gordon to use, Robin is given the co-ordinates to the batcave and access to all equipment, so closing off Bruce's story was the best option to allow Robin to have his own (if there ever is one)

Also if there is a deleted scene about banes mask i'll jizz everywhere.
I can't get into movies to that extent. A 720p blu-ray rip with DTS sound on my hard-drive hooked up to my blu-ray player is all I need. I'm just glad I have the trilogy to watch whenever I want.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:30 AM   #67
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

As much as I loved the Dark Knight, Rises was a bit of a let down. It was still pretty well done (albeit with some annoying plot holes), and it does close off Wayne's story.

But... after TDK, it was set up wonderfully to be open to the Batman mythos. While still on the run from the cops, he could encounter riddler, penguin, hush, azrael, hugo strange, harley quinn,... joker again. It doesn't seem like a Batman thing to have him just disappear for 8 years.
And I know Nolan is supposed to be grounded in reality, but having Bruce become a hermit and quit being batman isn't the batman story i know.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:11 PM   #68
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by bootsy
You go right ahead and take them and shove them up your ass as well. No one in their right mind is taking the garbage especially the 2nd one over any of Nolan's Batman's.
Damn. Very sensitive are we? Just an opinion man. Sorry, De Vitos take on Penguin and Michelle Pfeffier as Selena Kyle/Catwoman were transcendant. Im a Batman/Spawn guy. I just liked Burtons interpretation more. The Burton flicks had more atmosphere and I think Keaton was a better Batman. But honestly, you need to relax.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:30 PM   #69
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by LA Lakers
Damn. Very sensitive are we? Just an opinion man. Sorry, De Vitos take on Penguin and Michelle Pfeffier as Selena Kyle/Catwoman were transcendant. Im a Batman/Spawn guy. I just liked Burtons interpretation more. The Burton flicks had more atmosphere and I think Keaton was a better Batman. But honestly, you need to relax.
De Vito's Penguin was as hammy as they come. Not to mention in accurate.

Penguin isn't a freak, he's a british arms / dealer and suave business man.

Selena Kyle isn't a timid chick, who gets licked back to life by cats and goes on a man hating revenge streak. She's Catwoman because she is a cat burglar.

As with any Burton movie, it's all atmosphere and style over substance. B89 is incredible visually, thanks to Anton Furst, and Bob Ringwood's genius idea to put Batman in all black.

But the movie is just hollow. They play the character like he was in the early pulp days, but it comes across in a very 2 dimensional way. Keaton's Batman is mysterious, but I wouldn't say it is the better performance.

I also wasn't a fan of the way B89 expresses Gotham as an almost Germanic city in it's architecture. This is an American legend, and should be set in a recognizable, albeit gritty American city. That's what Gotham is in the comics. It certainly isn't that GOTH fairy tale land from Batman Returns. Nolan's city is recognizable, gritty, real ... and visibly American as it was shot in real American cities like Chicago, Pittsburgh, New York. Gives a greater sense of scale, making these films modern mythologies on a grand and epic scale.

The film has nice atmosphere but it focuses too much on Jack Nicholson's character, leaving him no mystery or threat. His motivations as Joker are stupid (he's after Wayne's girlfriend) ...

Wayne has no true identifiable character arc, they turn Joker into the killer of the Waynes (unforgivable) and essentially turns the entire thing into a revenge story. Not an eternal war on crime, but revenge.

Batman Returns is an abomination onto itself. Not only does the surface level plot suck, all it is was a circle jerk to Goth German Expressionism from Burton. Burton had no interest in doing another Batman movie, he made a Burton movie. Even before he became a parody of himself as a film maker (he is still making the same movies about social outcasts, freaks, etc) but he makes Batman a sadistic killer in this movie for no reason. No battle within his soul to not cross the line and take the easy way out in killing.

The whole movie makes little sense, and is essentially the reason we got Shumacher. The film itself is darker, but it takes itself even less seriously than B89 did ... and there is some go awful puns / dialogue in this movie.

To even insinuate these films are better than Nolan's game changing comic book film trilogy is a slap in the face to fans of quality cinema. Even if you were disappointed in RISES it was a genius conclusion to the Wayne character arc that stretched three films.

I tip my hat to B89. It set the tone for future serious comic book movies, introduced dark atmosphere and scratched the surface on psychological motivations of mythic comic book characters, laid the foundation for the modern blockbuster / studio hype machine. But the film is a hollow shell compared to what the golden age of comic book films brought to us starting in 1998 w/ David Goyer's BLADE film.

Bruce Wayne is a driven, motivated, and obsessive character ... but he isn't merely crazy the way he's depicted in the Burton films. He's a detective, super ninja who uses fear, brute force, and martial arts to make his stamp on a city and it's underworld. None of this was accurately conveyed in Burton's films.

TDK trilogy is by far and away better than any of it's predecessors, and leaps and bounds better than anything else in the genre.

Superman: TM and B89 we owe a lot too. They're basically the George Mikan / Wilt Chamberlain of the superhero movie game.

They laid the ground work for the ultimate potential final product.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:30 PM   #70
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

I disagree. Im not judging their interpretations based on how Bob Kane/DC might have envisioned characters as opposed to how a filmmaker like say, Tim Burton wants to present them. I really hate this trend of pumping out comic book movies I think comic books and film is a totally different medium, and if we are going to disbute every difference between a comic book movie and the actual source material wed be writing all night. With that said, from a cinematic standpoint, I still think Nolan is very clunky with action scenes(Joker abducting Dent in Dark Knight- Gotham tunnel sequence is confusing as **** and very disorienting in how it was shot). I dont feel he draws out dramatic impact enough(Alfred crying at Waynes graveside for 5 seconds and then quick switch to Gordon/Blake is a perfect example). I think Nolan has a tendency to over edit his movies... I appreciate individual performances he gets from his actors, but as a director of action, Im not sold. With that said, yes, we finally have a trilogy, and a decent one. I think Batman Begins is the best of the new films. All just my opinion, with all art, its subjective my man...
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:43 PM   #71
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by LA Lakers
I disagree. Im not judging their interpretations based on how Bob Kane/DC might have envisioned characters as opposed to how a filmmaker like say, Tim Burton wants to present them.
Why not? They're adaptations of a source material, correct? The vision keeper making a film about Batman needs to be respectful to the creation he's bringing to life. He can only shoe in so much artistic interpretation or agenda, without stepping on something is beloved by a lot of people. It requires Batman like levels of self control and restraint. Tell the story you want to tell, but keep it faithful, and keep it Batman.

I don't care if elements are changed to fit a cinematic universe w/ REAL people and actors, or changed to make something fresh or believable as long as the core essence of the mythos be kept in tack and be respectful. Burton pissed on the story from the point of the 1988 writer's strike when they re-wrote the 3rd act of BATMAN and started twisting the vision of the character. And then in RETURNS flat out took a dump on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Lakers
that said, from a cinematic standpoint, I still think Nolan is very clunky with action scenes(Joker abducting Dent in Dark Knight- Gotham tunnel sequence is confusing as **** and very disorienting in how it was shot).
How could you not understand what was going on? Nolan's action set pieces in TDK were utterly amazing. As was the car chase in BEGINS, and the action set pieces in RISES were equally stunning.

All practical, with little use of CGI or model effects. Gritty, 1970's era American film making. Akin to the original Star Wars, French Connection, etc. Which is amazing, and will let these films age like fine wine given their practical stunts and visual effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Lakers
I dont feel he draws out dramatic impact enough(Alfred crying at Waynes graveside for 5 seconds and then quick switch to Gordon/Blake is a perfect example).
He makes quick cuts because his stories are massive, and has a lot of ground to cover. Nolan makes EPICS. Yet they still have these fantastic intimate character moments, like when Caine's Alfred tells Bruce he has a death wish, or the intimate convo between Bane and Wayne after he imprisoned him in the pit.

Those small issues aren't forgivable for otherwise great movies, yet you find no fault on Burton's redundant themes, style over substance, over simplification of plot / mythos, lack of stunning action sequences, filming on confined sets (losing scale) and the fact his two Batman films has, NO PLOT, NO CHARACTER ARC, no pathos for the characters we're supposed to care for in this fantastic journey of a tortured young man's death wish fighting a war on crime in a corrupt city?



Not to mention Nolan's films a socially, politically relevant and comment on actual real world issues, while also being entertaining blockbusters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Lakers
I think Batman Begins is the best of the new films. All just my opinion, with all art, its subjective my man...
I know ... I'm just discussing this with you. I still don't get your reasoning for finding the two Burton films being superior to the Nolan trilogy. All you've told me is what you didn't like about Nolan's films. Which leads me to believe you recognize they're better, but being contrarian for the sake of their popularity.

You're not expressing passionate reasoning or love for films you feel are superior. I'm giving you POSITIVES why Nolan's films are better, you're just giving me subjective quirks with a director.

TDK - 5/5
Rises - 4.5 / 5
Begins - 4/5

How are the Nolan film's NOT atmospheric, btw?

BEGINS gives you the dirty corrupt Gotham, before Batman makes his impact. Just like Burton's Gotham except less cartoony, less German architecture, grittier, more functional, on a real American City scale, and not just looped on the same set build. You've got the narrows ghetto near Arkham, a nod to the real life slums of Kowloon giving rich Blade Runner esque visuals and the grungy rusted orange hue to the film.

TDK gives you a now clean, streamlined Gotham thanks to Batman's impact cleaning up the streets, but it wreaks with atmosphere of cold modernist blue hues, contemporary American buildings ... with a growing threat of the Joker threatening to tear the serenity of it all down. The Joker's rotted, grunge, anarchist, punk street look is juxtaposed to the now cleanliness of Gotham City. Oh, CAN'T FORGET those creepy 3 AM shots of Gotham, burning fire trucks (Joker humor) ... and that HAUNTING visual of the Joker hanging his head out a cop car like a mad dog, which was beyond creepy. The entire film is the best post 9/11 War on Terror allegory seen on film, since the dawn of the age of domestic terrorism in 2001.

RISES gives you a dystopian, disaster / war film. A ghost town Gotham City, with rubble everywhere, and the film echoes death with it's black / white / grey hues. It also in it's set design shows the passage of time, given the 8 year time differences, showing a slightly more futuristic Gotham. Or at least nods to it. Whoever thought we'd see a serious Batman, and a serious Batman movie have the balls to bring the dracula-esque character into the early Gotham dawn and still make him intimidating?

Each one of these films pushed the genre and Batman on screen, while being respectful to the mythos, yet adapting it / making fresh to fit the real world they were applying it to ... and in the process made a beloved modern mythology, on a scale the character always deserved. Think about it.

From laughing stock (Batman and Robin) to legend (TDK trilogy) and @ Nolan's films not having atmosphere.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:46 PM   #72
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

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Originally Posted by paperstreet
And I know Nolan is supposed to be grounded in reality, but having Bruce become a hermit and quit being batman isn't the batman story i know.
Then you don't know the character ... AT ALL.

The most beloved and acclaimed Batman story of ALL - TIME, TDK Returns? Which this film TDK Rises is based on ...

He was retired for 10 years. 2 years longer than he was in RISES.

And he didn't QUIT being Batman. God, people just don't get this film at all, or they didn't pay close enough attention.

Bruce is retired out of circumstance.

A) It gives weight to the selfless act of Batman at the end of TDK, allows Dent to be the public hero, Batman the hated villain

B) Crime is WIPED OUT in Gotham thanks to the "Dent Act" which was public policy created due to Batman's sacrifice.

ex: John Blake "soon you'll have us chasing down over due library books"

Gotham on the surface for 8 years, even if based on a manipulative lie is in a good place. It's clean. No mob. Police force isn't corrupt anymore, so now they can do their job and pursue basic street crime.

Thus making the Batman NOT NEEDED, as it's stated in the film at various points through dialogue.

Gordon "We were in this together, and then you were gone."
Bruce Wayne "The Batman wasn't needed anymore, WE WON."
Gordon "Based on a lie"

C) One of the major points of TDK, and one of the longest running themes in the Batman comics is that Batman's presence in Gotham is equally negative as it is positive. He saves all these people, but his image and presence attracts crazies (copy cats, freak / theatrical villains) ... with Batman no longer in Gotham, it doesn't attract the insane copy cats or opposition.

D) Bruce WANTS to be the Batman. He has nothing to do, no chance for a life (so he assumes) w/o Rachel, as Alfred says to him

"You were just waiting for things to go bad again"

And he was. That's why he jumps at the chance to be Batman after he hears of the masked mercenary brought to Gotham by Dagget. That's why he gets excited for Fox's new toys at Wayne Enterprises.

All these two characters we love from the first two films: Wayne, Gordon are stuck at the start of this film. They get re-invigorated by the young or new characters of Selina Kyle, John Blake, and Bane.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:56 PM   #73
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Just a heads up, this Bluray trilogy is $30 on Amazon. 43% off. The Dark Knight Rises alone is $25 on Bluray.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:13 PM   #74
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

what i did not like:

1 - Bane death... the way he died... we spent the whole movie hyping Bane as the most evil thing on the earth... then in less that 5 minutes we realize he is not the brains behind his own operation and Catwoman jumps in a kills him...

Thats the only thing i hated about the whole trilogy.... everything else would be just over picking.

Favorite parts:

1 - Training part/becoming batman thing in Batman begins... Absolutely loved it.

2 - Escape from middle east prison... "im not meant to die here... here... there... whats the difference..."

3 - The villains, all of them... Ras al ghul was superb, Joker out of this world and Bane was amazing until the... see above.

4 - Bane speech.

5 - Batman vs Bane first fight.

6 - Joker interrogation scene.

7 - Ras al ghul, "the training is nothing... the will is everything"
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:40 PM   #75
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Default Re: The Dark Knight Trilogy

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mamba
Then you don't know the character ... AT ALL.

The most beloved and acclaimed Batman story of ALL - TIME, TDK Returns? Which this film TDK Rises is based on ...

He was retired for 10 years. 2 years longer than he was in RISES.

And he didn't QUIT being Batman. God, people just don't get this film at all, or they didn't pay close enough attention.

Bruce is retired out of circumstance.

A) It gives weight to the selfless act of Batman at the end of TDK, allows Dent to be the public hero, Batman the hated villain

B) Crime is WIPED OUT in Gotham thanks to the "Dent Act" which was public policy created due to Batman's sacrifice.

ex: John Blake "soon you'll have us chasing down over due library books"

Gotham on the surface for 8 years, even if based on a manipulative lie is in a good place. It's clean. No mob. Police force isn't corrupt anymore, so now they can do their job and pursue basic street crime.

Thus making the Batman NOT NEEDED, as it's stated in the film at various points through dialogue.

Gordon "We were in this together, and then you were gone."
Bruce Wayne "The Batman wasn't needed anymore, WE WON."
Gordon "Based on a lie"

C) One of the major points of TDK, and one of the longest running themes in the Batman comics is that Batman's presence in Gotham is equally negative as it is positive. He saves all these people, but his image and presence attracts crazies (copy cats, freak / theatrical villains) ... with Batman no longer in Gotham, it doesn't attract the insane copy cats or opposition.

D) Bruce WANTS to be the Batman. He has nothing to do, no chance for a life (so he assumes) w/o Rachel, as Alfred says to him

"You were just waiting for things to go bad again"

And he was. That's why he jumps at the chance to be Batman after he hears of the masked mercenary brought to Gotham by Dagget. That's why he gets excited for Fox's new toys at Wayne Enterprises.

All these two characters we love from the first two films: Wayne, Gordon are stuck at the start of this film. They get re-invigorated by the young or new characters of Selina Kyle, John Blake, and Bane.
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