Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-26-2012, 10:51 AM   #91
ShaqAttack3234
7-time NBA All-Star
 
ShaqAttack3234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,961
ShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobr
Anthony Mason

'96-'97

Quote:
Toni Kukoc

Tough one, maybe '98? They needed him more that year with Pippen out, and he easily had his best playoff run of that second 3peat. Not sure though.

Quote:
Horace Grant

'93-'94.

Quote:
Michael Finley

1999-2000, without question. He not only had his best statistical season, but he played the entire season with plantar fasciitis and not only did a good job carrying the scoring load due to his isolation ability and shooting, but he had to handle the ball a lot more because Nash hadn't established himself yet. He led a Dallas team that wasn't that good to a 40-42 record, but they went on a tear late in the season. Don Nelson had announced his retirement that year, but changed his mind, and I'm guessing that's because of the Mavs finishing so strong at 16-6, which had a lot to do with Finley's great play.

Quote:
Gerald Wallace

Definitely 2009-2010.

Quote:
Norm Nixon

It's between '80 and '82. I'd go with '82 because of the playoff run. Very underrated player, he split PG duties with Magic and did an excellent job. He wasn't as good as Magic, even back then, but he impressed me more as a scorer(not than '87-'91 Magic, but '80-'83 Magic) with his pull up mid-range jumper.

Quote:
Robert Horry

I'd say '95, he played the best basketball of his career. His '96 regular season was better statistically, but I'd stick with '95. It's strange how much he declined at such a young age. People who only know him from his Laker and Spurs days would be shocked to see him when he was young.

Quote:
Eddie Jones.

Definitely 2000. He went to Charlotte and was the man for the first time in his career and led that team to 49 wins while setting new career highs in points(20.1), assists(4.2) and steals(2.7), while leading the league in the latter category. Charlotte did seem to have a good amount of talent, but strangely went 2-8 without Eddie.

Aside from Kobe(who had his best defensive season), Eddie was probably the best two-way perimeter player player in 2000, and arguably the best defensive guard, definitely up there as far as all-star players, rivaled by probably only Kobe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTION
I don't agree about 2002-03 being much in the mix for Kobe's best season, but it did come down to 2005-06 and 2007-08 for me. I originally had his 2006 season listed, but decided to ultimately go with 2008. '06 was admittedly his scoring peak, but I feel like Kobe was a better defender in '08 while still being a major scoring threat. He also did much better in the '08 playoffs, getting to the finals and putting up 30/5.7/5.6 in 21 games. He was a more efficient scorer in 2008 too. Those reasons plus him making MVP led me to choose 2007-08 as his best season. But I don't disagree with anybody who chooses 2005-06.

I agree, I don't see what puts '03 over '06 or '08.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTION
Bruce Bowen: 2004-05

He's difficult to judge, his defense was always there, and he was never much of an offensive player other than those corner 3s. I'm fine with '05, but I might go with '03 when he led the league in 3P% and had an excellent playoff run when he showed how good of a defender he was.

Quote:
Adrian Dantley: 1983-84

I'd definitely go with this season.

Quote:
Dave DeBusschere: 1967-68

One of the most underrated players, there were many factors in the Knicks becoming such a great team from '69-'74, but acquiring Dave was as big as any, they went 18-17 to start the '68-'69 season, but then went 36-11 after trading Walt Bellamy for DeBuscherre.

I haven't looked into Dave's career as much with Detroit, but I wouldn't go by numbers because he was in a position to put up better numbers than he was on such a balanced team like the Knicks.

Quote:
Mark Eaton: 1984-85

I haven't seen many Jazz games from this season, but it seems like a logical choice.

Quote:
Bobby Jones: 1982-83

Not sure about this one, I don't think he had really lost anything by this point, but he was in a reduced role compared to previous years. He had been an all-star in previous years.

Quote:
Shawn Kemp: 1995-96

I definitely agree with this one.

Quote:
Shawn Marion: 2005-06

This is definitely accurate as well.

Quote:
Terry Porter: 1991-92

You could go with any season from '90-'92. '91 would be a good choice for regular season, but '90 is also interesting, he was more impressive than Drexler during the first 3 rounds of the playoffs and led the Blazers in scoring in 2 of their first 3 rounds. Porter is underrated, he was a big part of Portland's stacked teams. He seemed to take most of their big shots late in games.

Quote:
Mark Price: 1988-89

It's definitely between '89 and '90. Can't argue with that '89.

Quote:
Glen Rice: 1996-97

That definitely seems right, though he did benefit quite a bit from the shortened line.

Quote:
Arvydas Sabonis: 1995-96

I'd go with '98. He easily set career highs in mpg(32) as well as ppg(16), rpg(10) and apg(3).

Quote:
Ralph Sampson: 1985-86

I'm not sure, Sampson didn't seem like a player who improved greatly in his first 3 years. But I did notice his passing in '86 games, and sure enough, he averaged 3.6 apg. Such a unique player, it's a shame that injuries ruined his career after the finals appearance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTION
2008-09
He also appeared to be a more efficient scorer (53.1% from the field on the season) and a bit more versatile.

Well, this is primarily because he cut down on how many 3s he attempted dramatically each of his first 2 years in Miami, though I consider this to be an improvement in his game because as great as he was in Cleveland, I always thought he took too many 3s because while he was streaky and could make a lot, it paled in comparison to other parts of his games.

But another reason for the higher FG% is how many more transition opportunities Lebron got this year. Part of this was because Miami sarted specializing in forcing turnovers, which Lebron's defense contributed to, but he also leaked out and cherry picked more often for easy baskets.

He was more versatile in that he at least started posting up fairly regularly and looked decent in the post, unlike any other season, and hit that turnaround jumper pretty frequently. He also added a short range jumper from 10-15 feet which he never had in Cleveland, and moved better without the ball than before this year. He was definitely cutting to the basket for more easy lay ups.

Here's a link to some in-depth stats backing up these points about Lebron's post game and how much he scores in transition.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/0...n-in-the-post/

As you can see, at the time this was posted(March 1st), Lebron was scoring 24.6% of his points in transition, up from 21.6% in '11, 20.4% in '10, 18.2% in '09 and 17.3% in '08. Though he led the league in fast break points every season.

Quote:
I'm okay with leaving it open to a vote though. Anyone else vote for 2009 over 2012?

I take '09 over '12 as well. The historic regular season Lebron led that Cavs team to is unbelievable.

They had a top 10 record in NBA history at 66-16 and probably would have tied the '86 Celtics home record of 40-1 had they not rested their best players on the last game(a 1 point loss in OT). They also led the league in point differential at 8.9 ppg.

Pretty remarkable that he did this with Mo Williams, Zydrunas Ilgauska, Delonte West, Ben Wallace(past his prime), Daniel Gibson and Wally Szczerbiak(also past his prime).

It definitely wasn't a team of scrubs, and in fairness, the names of the cast don't account for that fact Cleveland was the second best 3 point shooting team at 39.3% and 3rd in made 3s. They were also a top 3 defensive team. But not a team you expect to win 60+ games. I remember expecting the Cavs to win 55 games after they acquired Mo, although I didn't know Lebron would improve like he did in '09.

If you remember, Lebron was sitting out a lot of 4th quarters because of all the blowouts, so his numbers were lowered and he still ended up averaging 28/8/7, 1.6 spg, 1.1 bpg, 49 FG%. He probably ends up averaging more like 30/8/8 without all of those blowouts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
Using your "formulas", Kareem's prime came in '71. Which, I have long maintained was a PEAK Kareem.

Or, if he wanted to pick a championship year, he could pick 1980. Kareem had a better playoff run than in '71, and he was also a more skilled complete player, imo. He already seemed to be a good passer in the '71 footage I've seen, but I believe he improved in that aspect as most players do. He was also physically stronger than he was in the early 70's, especially in '80 when he started lifting weights. And he had added more moves, rather than the sky hook every time(though that usually worked), he now had a left-handed hook and a turnaround jumper.

He had also lost remarkably little athleticism. But I'd say he was even better in '77. He's never been more dominant than the '77 playoffs, many were saying he was playing the best ball of his life, and noticed all the improvements I mentioned which is why I believe he became a much more reliable playoff performer from '74 on. He had almost no weaknesses for a big man, but the one thing I'd call a weakness early was his strength, which I believe could be exploited. He was actually pretty strong later, stronger than many would think. I've heard he had a lot of lower body strength from centers who played against him. Even his regular season was excellent in '77, his great play is why they overachieved in the regular season and got the best record.
ShaqAttack3234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 06:49 PM   #92
REACTION
HYRYSICPT?
 
REACTION's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 662
REACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

K, I'll go with 2009 for LeBron.
REACTION is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 07:08 PM   #93
StateOfMind12
Banned
 
StateOfMind12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,838
StateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
I take '09 over '12 as well. The historic regular season Lebron led that Cavs team to is unbelievable.

I would go with '12 LeBron but it's not a big deal if someone believes '09 Lebron or '10 Lebron was better but I personally believe Lebron was better than ever last season.

I think Lebron plays more like a forward these days whereas in Cleveland he pretty much played like an oversized guard with unparallel athleticism.

This was why everybody questioned how long LeBron could play at a high level due to his reliant on athleticism and how much his play was going to be impacted with age.

I think with the way Miami Lebron plays, he will be fine with age because he doesn't depend on his athleticism as much anymore. He uses everything to his advantage these days, his versatility to defend 1-4 positions and play 1-4 positions, his strength and size in the post-up game, etc.

His jump shot for the most part is essentially the same as it was in '09 and '10 except that in 2012 he is much better in the mid-range specifically the high to low post area.

His passing is pretty much the same although he isn't used as much of a playmaker in Miami anymore due to the fact that he plays in the post more often but he does pass out of the post very well these days.

His defense has improved magnificently. While Lebron was an elite and a great defender in his last two seasons in Cleveland he was never really worthy or close to the DPOY award like he is currently and the way he was in 2012. I also don't think that LBJ in Cleveland was capable of guarding 1-4 positions either. I think he might have been able to guard 1-3 but I just think Lebron could guard the 4s and 5s in Miami now probably due to being a smarter defender and being a bit stronger and bulkier.

His rebounding has improved as well. He boxes out more for rebounds, he goes after the rebounds more, and he also scores more off of tip-ins and put-backs. I like the fact that he increased his activity/hustle level and used it as an advantage.

I think the only thing '09 and '10 LeBron did better than '12 LeBron is isolation. He was just a little more quicker and explosive back then and could create his own shot a little better but he can still create his own shot just fine. I don't think it's enough to put over '12 LeBron's improvement in defense, post-game, rebounding, etc. though.

I think that Miami LeBron is like a hybrid between Pippen and Karl Malone whereas Cleveland LeBron was like a hybrid between Pippen and Dwyane Wade. Pippen has always been Lebron's main prototype.
StateOfMind12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 07:26 PM   #94
StateOfMind12
Banned
 
StateOfMind12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,838
StateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Also ShaqAttack, check out this stat

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/mia...james-mvp-push



I think a lot of the fact that he doesn't attack and slash to the basket as much as he use to has to do with the fact that he less space to work with Wade out there. I always see LeBron playing like vintage '09 and '10 LeBron offensively and putting up '09 and '10 LeBron numbers when Wade is on the bench out or not playing at all.

It is why I think the Heat should trade Wade but that deal would never be done.

Like I said, Lebron may be slightly less athletic but he is pretty much better at every aspect now than he was in 2009 and 2010. There is no question Lebron was more important to those Cavs team than he was to those Heat teams but this has a lot do with the fact that he had no help in Cleveland whereas he does have help in Miami. It has nothing to do with Lebron being better or worse.

I would rank LeBron's like this

2011-12 Lebron
2009-10 Lebron
2008-09 Lebron
StateOfMind12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 07:32 PM   #95
RoundMoundOfReb
Top 1 NBA/NFL Mind
 
RoundMoundOfReb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 8,649
RoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRoundMoundOfReb is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Also ShaqAttack, check out this stat

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/mia...james-mvp-push



I think a lot of the fact that he doesn't attack and slash to the basket as much as he use to has to do with the fact that he less space to work with Wade out there. I always see LeBron playing like vintage '09 and '10 LeBron offensively and putting up '09 and '10 LeBron numbers when Wade is on the bench out or not playing at all.

It is why I think the Heat should trade Wade but that deal would never be done.

Like I said, Lebron may be slightly less athletic but he is pretty much better at every aspect now than he was in 2009 and 2010. There is no question Lebron was more important to those Cavs team than he was to those Heat teams but this has a lot do with the fact that he had no help in Cleveland whereas he does have help in Miami. It has nothing to do with Lebron being better or worse.

I would rank LeBron's like this

2011-12 Lebron
2009-10 Lebron
2008-09 Lebron


Wow that's an interesting stat.
RoundMoundOfReb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 05:35 AM   #96
StateOfMind12
Banned
 
StateOfMind12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,838
StateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

As I had posted in the last page....


Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
I would also change Manu Ginobili's best season to '04-'05 instead of '07-'08. I say this mainly because Manu performed better in the 2005 post-season and he was also a starter. 6th men who shouldn't be 6th men like Manu can produce better stats in the regular season in this situation because they are going up against opponent's 2nd unit.

And to add more to the players you had already listed but hadn't filled out a year yet.

Al Jefferson - 2008-09
Andrei Kirilenko - 2003-04
Larry Hughes - 2004-05
Rashard Lewis - 2004-05
StateOfMind12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 07:14 PM   #97
REACTION
HYRYSICPT?
 
REACTION's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 662
REACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Any other votes on Ginobili?

2004-05 or 2007-08?
REACTION is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 05:49 PM   #98
DFish
Banned
 
DFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,727
DFish posts stuff that is definitely making some people angryDFish posts stuff that is definitely making some people angryDFish posts stuff that is definitely making some people angry
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTION
I'm okay with leaving it open to a vote though. Anyone else vote for 2009 over 2012?

Either put 2009 or 2012* with an asterisk.
DFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 12:33 AM   #99
StateOfMind12
Banned
 
StateOfMind12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,838
StateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTION
Any other votes on Ginobili?

2004-05 or 2007-08?
To add to what I say about '05 Manu vs. '08 Manu, you could also argue that Manu should have been the one that got the finals MVP in that 2005 Finals. '08 Manu didn't perform so well in the post-season whereas '05 Manu was extremely important and productive in that post-season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
Using your "formulas", Kareem's prime came in '71. Which, I have long maintained was a PEAK Kareem.
Why is '71 Kareem better than '77 Kareem? I've usually seen people say he was better in '77.
StateOfMind12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 11:38 PM   #100
Kobr
Bryant
 
Kobr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LA
Posts: 1,247
Kobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKobr is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTION
Any other votes on Ginobili?

2004-05 or 2007-08?

I'd probably go with 2005.
Kobr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 01:03 AM   #101
ShaqAttack3234
7-time NBA All-Star
 
ShaqAttack3234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,961
ShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableShaqAttack3234 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
I would go with '12 LeBron but it's not a big deal if someone believes '09 Lebron or '10 Lebron was better but I personally believe Lebron was better than ever last season.

I think Lebron plays more like a forward these days whereas in Cleveland he pretty much played like an oversized guard with unparallel athleticism.

This was why everybody questioned how long LeBron could play at a high level due to his reliant on athleticism and how much his play was going to be impacted with age.

I think with the way Miami Lebron plays, he will be fine with age because he doesn't depend on his athleticism as much anymore. He uses everything to his advantage these days, his versatility to defend 1-4 positions and play 1-4 positions, his strength and size in the post-up game, etc.

His jump shot for the most part is essentially the same as it was in '09 and '10 except that in 2012 he is much better in the mid-range specifically the high to low post area.

His passing is pretty much the same although he isn't used as much of a playmaker in Miami anymore due to the fact that he plays in the post more often but he does pass out of the post very well these days.

His defense has improved magnificently. While Lebron was an elite and a great defender in his last two seasons in Cleveland he was never really worthy or close to the DPOY award like he is currently and the way he was in 2012. I also don't think that LBJ in Cleveland was capable of guarding 1-4 positions either. I think he might have been able to guard 1-3 but I just think Lebron could guard the 4s and 5s in Miami now probably due to being a smarter defender and being a bit stronger and bulkier.

His rebounding has improved as well. He boxes out more for rebounds, he goes after the rebounds more, and he also scores more off of tip-ins and put-backs. I like the fact that he increased his activity/hustle level and used it as an advantage.

I think the only thing '09 and '10 LeBron did better than '12 LeBron is isolation. He was just a little more quicker and explosive back then and could create his own shot a little better but he can still create his own shot just fine. I don't think it's enough to put over '12 LeBron's improvement in defense, post-game, rebounding, etc. though.

I think that Miami LeBron is like a hybrid between Pippen and Karl Malone whereas Cleveland LeBron was like a hybrid between Pippen and Dwyane Wade. Pippen has always been Lebron's main prototype.

I don't disagree with that much in this post, except I don't really see Lebron as a guy who can guard 5s, maybe he can get away with it for a short stretch vs a guy who is a non-factor offensively or on a switch, but not regularly. I also think his ability to guard 4s is a bit overstated.

Lebron had the same size/bulk those last 2 years in Cleveland, although I will agree that he's played his best defense in Miami.

I like Lebron's versatility in Miami more, that alone makes it tempting for me to take '12 Lebron, but I think the added quickness made him a more dominant scorer, and a better playmaker as well, plus, his shooting was not a problem by that point and he was already a good defender.

Not a big difference, but he was a more impressive scorer and playmaker to me in '09 and '10, and just a bit more dominant overall, imo. Close enough that I'll reserve the right to change my mind.

Quote:
Also ShaqAttack, check out this stat

Interesting, though not that surprising. It was obvious that part of the reason his numbers took a hit was playing with Wade. Though he does shoot 55% with Wade vs 51% without Wade, though that could have more to do with the difference in volume of shot attempts.

By the way, I looked up Bosh's stats in games without Wade last season a while ago and he was at 24/8 on 58 FG% in 13 games(12-1 record), not sure what his complete on/off numbers are, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTION
Any other votes on Ginobili?

2004-05 or 2007-08?

I'll go with '08. He did make the all-star game and then have a phenomenal playoff run in '05, but he produced more over an entire season in '08.

He averaged about 20/5/5 on 46/40/86 shooting and 2.1 3PM(61 TS%, 54 eFG%) in 31 mpg. Led the Spurs in scoring and made the all-nba 3rd team.

In 23 games as a starter, Manu averaged 22/5/6 on 49/40/89 shooting and 2.4 3PM in 35.5 mpg. So I don't think his numbers were inflated at all by playing against second units, and he did always play quite a bit against starters anyway.

He didn't play nearly as well in the playoffs, but he was injured. Most notably an ankle injury that bothered him in the Laker series.

Quote:
Manu Ginobili, who was hobbled all series by a jammed ankle, produced just 9 points Thursday and admitted that the injury had been an issue.

"They really took advantage, the way I was feeling," Ginobili said. "They played really hard on me."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/30/sp.../30lakers.html

Quote:
than Ginobili, who also is dealing with a sore left ankle and a finger injury.
Ginobili took two shots in the fourth quarter and missed them both, including a potential go-ahead three-pointer with nine seconds remaining. Overall, he finished with 10 points (on 3-for-13 shooting) and committed four turnovers. His jumpers were short. His explosive first step wasn't there. He made Lakers guard Sasha Vujacic look like Ron Artest.
"I have a couple issues," Ginobili said, "but nothing that bad that can justify the way I played. I'm upset, but it's over, and now you've got to try to play better next game."
With only one day off between each game in the series, Ginobili won't have much time to get rejuvenated. The ankle injury, which dates back to Game 1 of the Spurs' first-round series against the Suns, is particularly troublesome. But if the Spurs want to salvage a split on the road after blowing a 20-point third-quarter deficit in Game 1, they need to find a way to reignite their spark plug.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...inobili.spurs/

His playoff run was remarkable in '05. 21/6/4 on 51/44/80 shooting while not playing that many minutes is impressive. But in this case, given the disparity in the regular seasons, I'll go with '08. Good enough for top 15 in both seasons, imo.
ShaqAttack3234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 04:22 AM   #102
StateOfMind12
Banned
 
StateOfMind12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,838
StateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
I don't disagree with that much in this post, except I don't really see Lebron as a guy who can guard 5s, maybe he can get away with it for a short stretch vs a guy who is a non-factor offensively or on a switch, but not regularly. I also think his ability to guard 4s is a bit overstated.
I use to think this as well but after watching him guard Gasol and other 4s I believe he is more than capable of guarding 4s. I do agree with you though that he can only guard post up 4s and 5s for stretches and not an entire game but he is still valuable defensively anyways.

It makes him valuable defensively because this means that Lebron can pretty much switch on any player which is exactly why the Heat's pick and roll defense is so tough to deal with and it is because of LeBron's versatility and rotational defense.

Quote:
I like Lebron's versatility in Miami more, that alone makes it tempting for me to take '12 Lebron, but I think the added quickness made him a more dominant scorer, and a better playmaker as well, plus, his shooting was not a problem by that point and he was already a good defender.
Well, I agree with you that he had a little more quickness and explosiveness which made him more dangerous and better in isolation situations but even with the slight loss in Miami, he was still deadly in those situations.

Lebron made a bunch of clutch and huge shots in the 2012 playoffs such as the deep 3 in Game 7 of the ECF over Brandon Bass, the 3 over Thabo when he was suffering cramps, bank shot over Thabo in Game 2, etc.

I actually believe he is even more reliable as a scoring since he now has a legitimate and reliable post-game.

It's pretty unheard of to find teams that have never won a title without a post-scorer. Lebron was the Heat's post-scorer in 2012 and he was huge in the post especially in the Finals. Lebron was scoring at will in the post in the Finals and when the Thunder eventually decided to double him in Game 5, he made pin-point passes that led to easy and open 3s for his teammates.

I value the added post-game because it is more reliable for a player to score with and it also gives the player more options and space to work with.

If you look at the all-time perimeter greats that won a title, Bird, Jordan, Magic, Kobe, etc. they all had post games and reliable ones at that and now Lebron has been added to the list.

Quote:
Not a big difference, but he was a more impressive scorer and playmaker to me in '09 and '10, and just a bit more dominant overall, imo. Close enough that I'll reserve the right to change my mind.
The comparison is really like this...

Slight quickness and explosiveness which is better for isolation vs. Added reliable post-game, improved defense, improved rebounding, and also better mentality.

I forgot to mention the mentality difference between '09 and '10 LeBron and '12 LeBron.

'12 Lebron was relentless at attacking the rim especially when his jump shot went missing and you can check out the 2012 Finals for example. His jump shot really was ice cold in that series so because of that he decided to just put his head down and attack to the rim at will. Lebron scored a lot of points and got to the line a ton because of that.

'10, '09, and any Cleveland LeBron really would often times settle for jump shots and even continue settling for jump shots even if it was cold. He would end up playing like a shell of himself and bailing out his opponents with his cold jump shot.

Quote:
He didn't play nearly as well in the playoffs, but he was injured. Most notably an ankle injury that bothered him in the Laker series.
I was thinking '05 because '08 Manu was hampered by injuries and such. I don't believe '08 Manu played at a different level than '05 Manu did when he was healthy unlike the difference between '07 Yao and like '09 Yao. I think '05 and '08 were about the same with the slight edge to '08 Manu but due to the fact that Manu played much better in the post-season in '05 and was also a starter, I would say '05 was better.

Last edited by StateOfMind12 : 07-31-2012 at 04:27 AM.
StateOfMind12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 11:32 PM   #103
REACTION
HYRYSICPT?
 
REACTION's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 662
REACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

How about

Caron Butler
Gail Goodrich

?
REACTION is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 07:04 PM   #104
Purch
"Yung D-Will"
 
Purch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Swat Lake City
Posts: 1,521
Purch has decent reputation
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

bump
Purch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 08:10 PM   #105
Round Mound
NBA lottery pick
 
Round Mound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,047
Round Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation hereRound Mound has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

I Think The Best All Around Season for Sir Charles was The 1986-87 Season. The Best Was 1989-90 Season In Terms of Play but Not All Around Wise.

He Had Not Yet Developed the Onstoppable Post Game in 86-87 But It Was Still Good and All Around Wise, He Dominated the League Like No Other Forward.

23.0 PPG on 59.4% FG (22.1 PPG on 64.34% Two-Point FG * Lead the League on Just 12.25 Two-Point FGAs Taken)
14.6 RPG * Lead The League
4.9 APG * Lead All Powerforwards
1.8 SPG * Lead All Powerforwards
1.5 BPG * Amazing for a 6`4 3/4 ft Powerforward

He Was Literely Everywhere On The Court Causing Havoc.

Last edited by Round Mound : 12-21-2012 at 08:12 PM.
Round Mound is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:54 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy