Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-13-2012, 10:30 PM   #31
jlip
Good college starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Memphis
Posts: 3,226
jlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
for Russell I'd say any of 63-64, 64-65, 65-66 (66-67 would be on his list but he didn't win a ring, and it wasn't appreciably better); his physical prime was perhaps earlier but I think that three (four) year period definitely contains his playing peak

I honestly would have put '61-'62 as Russell's peak season. While I know that his primary greatness was seen on the defensive end, it appears that '62 was his best overall offensive season in both the regular season and playoffs.
jlip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:30 PM   #32
REACTION
HYRYSICPT?
 
REACTION's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 663
REACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

So 1999-00 for Shaq?
REACTION is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:31 PM   #33
jlip
Good college starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Memphis
Posts: 3,226
jlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTION
So 1999-00 for Shaq?

I think that is pretty much the consensus. From what I've seen and read many consider Shaq's '00 season do be one of the most dominant in NBA history.
jlip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:32 PM   #34
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,831
jlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
perhaps; I have to remain objective until this h2h project is complete though, so I'm going to withhold an opinion for now

I'm going to post on APBR either tonight or tomorrow (I've had an account for years, haven't posted though), and see what they have to add

I'm also going to go through and create a bounty list (well, not literally since there is no reward, other than the satisfaction of helping out) listing the cells that need completion in order of precedence in tiers (I'll post it in the '1962...' thread)

Statistically, Russell has no case over Wilt. Now, I will agree that he generally elevated the play of his teammates, though. Meanwhile, while I don't see a shred of evidence which shows that Wilt played considerably different from his regular season play, to his post-season play, his teammates routinely crumbled in their post-season play.
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:34 PM   #35
jlip
Good college starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Memphis
Posts: 3,226
jlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
Statistically, Russell has no case over Wilt. Now, I will agree that he generally elevated the play of his teammates, though. Meanwhile, while I don't see a shred of evidence which shows that Wilt played considerably different from his regular season play, to his post-season play, his teammates routinely crumbled in their post-season play.

Respectfully, can we please leave the Russell vs. Chamberlain debate for another thread?
jlip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:36 PM   #36
fpliii
sick of agendas...
 
fpliii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: nbastats.net
Posts: 9,691
fpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
Statistically, Russell has no case over Wilt. Now, I will agree that he generally elevated the play of his teammates, though. Meanwhile, while I don't see a shred of evidence which shows that Wilt played considerably different from his regular season play, to his post-season play, his teammates routinely crumbled in their post-season play.

that's very true, but I can't take a position until I'm no longer a part of the project...if I choose one side or the other that taints the data

WC statistically dominated BR, I'll admit that, but I can't say that one was the clear better/greater player at the moment
fpliii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:36 PM   #37
REACTION
HYRYSICPT?
 
REACTION's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 663
REACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Anyone disagree with putting 1961-62 for Russell?
REACTION is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:37 PM   #38
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,831
jlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlip
Respectfully, can we please leave the Russell vs. Chamberlain debate for another thread?

Well, the point is...Wilt, at his best, just dominated ALL of his peers, including Russell. You can find centers who dramatically reduced a prime Kareem, in his best seasons. But, a prime Wilt just pounded ALL of the best centers of his era. You would be hardpressed to find individual games in which his opposing centers outplayed him, but you will find many in which he just crushed them.
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:38 PM   #39
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,831
jlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
that's very true, but I can't take a position until I'm no longer a part of the project...if I choose one side or the other that taints the data

WC statistically dominated BR, I'll admit that, but I can't say that one was the clear better/greater player at the moment

Agreed. (And that is also why I didn't want edit access to your spreadsheet.)
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:40 PM   #40
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,831
jlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by REACTION
Anyone disagree with putting 1961-62 for Russell?

I don't have a problem with it, but I believe Russell, himself, claimed that his 63-64 or 64-65 seasons, were his best. His 64-65 post-season, particularly his Finals, was among the best ever.
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:42 PM   #41
jlip
Good college starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Memphis
Posts: 3,226
jlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation herejlip has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
Well, the point is...Wilt, at his best, just dominated ALL of his peers, including Russell. You can find centers who dramatically reduced a prime Kareem, in his best seasons. But, a prime Wilt just pounded ALL of the best centers of his era. You would be hardpressed to find individual games in which his opposing centers outplayed him, but you will find many in which he just crushed them.

I agree, but I thought the primary purpose of this particular thread was simply to list the primes of the individual player not necessarily to determine whose prime was greater than the other.
jlip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:45 PM   #42
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,831
jlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablejlauber is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlip
I agree, but I thought the primary purpose of this particular thread was simply to list the primes of the individual player not necessarily to determine whose prime was greater than the other.

Good point. I will say this, though, ...from my limited research, only a peak Shaq, peak Moses, and a peak Wilt thoroughly dominated most all of their best peers.
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:48 PM   #43
ducktape
lord
 
ducktape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New York City
Posts: 259
ducktape has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

scalabrine is still in his prime
ducktape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:49 PM   #44
REACTION
HYRYSICPT?
 
REACTION's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 663
REACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation hereREACTION has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlip
I agree, but I thought the primary purpose of this particular thread was simply to list the primes of the individual player not necessarily to determine whose prime was greater than the other.

Yeah. Debates about which season is a player's best are welcomed, but let's avoid player vs. player debates.
REACTION is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:54 PM   #45
fpliii
sick of agendas...
 
fpliii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: nbastats.net
Posts: 9,691
fpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfpliii is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlip
I honestly would have put '61-'62 as Russell's peak season. While I know that his primary greatness was seen on the defensive end, it appears that '62 was his best overall offensive season in both the regular season and playoffs.

here are the approximate defensive ratings of the Boston teams during BR's tenure:

57 - 85
58 - 84
59 - 86
60 - 86
61 - 85
62 - 86
63 - 88
64 - 84
65 - 85
66 - 89
67 - 92
68 - 93
69 - 90

(bolded are his best 5 defenses)

DRtg is largely useless for individual players, except when you're dealing with guys that anchored their defenses

63-64 and 64-65 were two of BR's best years...here are his approximate TRB% and AST%

57 - 22 / 8
58 - 21 / 11
59 - 19 / 10
60 - 19 / 10
61 - 19 / 9
62 - 19 / 12
63 - 19 / 12
64 - 21 / 13
65 - 21 / 15
66 - 21 / 14
67 - 21 / 17
68 - 20 / 15
69 - 19 / 14

(bolded are his best 5 seasons in both respects, 6 for rebounding due to ties)

some nitpicking since he was fairly consistent, but 1965 is his only season in which he was top 5 in all three of these categories; since it was the Celtics team during his run with the most wins (62), and it was his among his best playoff runs from a basic box score perspective (16.5/25.2/6.3 on 52.7% shooting in the playoffs (17.8/25.0 on 70.2% shooting in the Finals...I don't have all of his assist numbers but he had 6,10,4 in games 1,2,5 respectively, probably with solid blocks) I'm inclined to pick that season

so I'm taking 1964-65 as Russell's best season, but I'm more than happy to listen to other opinions

Last edited by fpliii : 07-13-2012 at 10:56 PM.
fpliii is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:31 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy