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Old 05-14-2012, 06:28 PM   #16
Pushxx
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

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Originally Posted by NewYorkNoPicks
Yeah but what im saying is at the time, you really can't blame Minny for doing that trade...it looked correct at the time. A dynamic probably future all-star pg to create easy opportunities for their blossoming big man.

I disagree. Ray Allen looked better to me in college and I thought he was going to translate to the NBA better.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

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He so good at using screens even though everybody knows what's gonna happen noone could defend it.

Sure they could. He had multiple stretches in his prime putting up 16-17ppg for months. He wasnt having 2-13, 3-10, and 1-16 games in the playoffs because he was unstoppable.

I know you dont literally mean he couldnt be defended...but I dont think he even merits inclusion among the guys we say that of in hyperbole.

Especially the idea that his screens got him shots at some high rate. he probably ran off 30-50 screens a night and got 8 shots out of it. It would get him looks enough to score his 15-25 points and some nights he might get hot and make contested shots.

But he wasnt just murdering teams with crazy buckets off the ball. He was more of an in the flow of the game scorer than a guy who just gives you the business. He was trouble on set plays at the end of the game because they would pull out something almost sure ot at least get the ball in his hands and he was clutch as hell.

But...he was never what id call unstoppable.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

Walter Ray Allen

Game has always been smooth...but the young ray Allen...the Bucks and Sonics Ray Allen was one of the best overall players in the league...unfortunately he was always stuck in small markets and unlike today there was a huge surplus of SGs taking the lime light...

However I really couldn't be mad if someone picked Reggie...Reggie always went for the kill...and was deadly...he also went to war with the 90's Knicks and MJ and held his own..something I think Ray would've struggled with cause back then u needed a certain edge to play against those teams
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

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Old 05-14-2012, 08:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

Reggie was more clutch, though that's not to say Ray wasn't. But Ray was the better player in every other aspect of the game. He was so much more than a three point shooter. Sure he could shoot... but he could create, attack the hoop, dunk in your face, pass, and defend. People really forget how versatile and complete of a player Ray was as a Buck.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

Ray is fcuking clutch.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:27 AM   #22
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

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Originally Posted by D.J.
Reggie was more clutch, though that's not to say Ray wasn't. But Ray was the better player in every other aspect of the game. He was so much more than a three point shooter. Sure he could shoot... but he could create, attack the hoop, dunk in your face, pass, and defend. People really forget how versatile and complete of a player Ray was as a Buck.
Ray wasn't that good or capable in those two aspects of the game but he was certainly better than Reggie at it.

I don't think people realize how stacked and good Reggie's Pacers were. I hate how everybody is giving Reggie all the credit for leading those Pacers teams to the playoffs and going deep in the playoffs occasionally and acting as if he did it all by himself. Reggie's teammates were very good and they were much better than the teammates Ray was playing before he joined the Celtics.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:44 AM   #23
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

Dude, both of them are remembered for their 3-P shooting stroke. Now who is the all time leader of those two ? Ray. All is said.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:50 AM   #24
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

Ray in Milwaukee and Seattle was clearly the better, more complete player. He could shoot at least as well as Reggie, probably better, imo. But he was a real threat creating his own shot off the dribble, and he was a good enough passer/playmaker to operate as a point guard at times, or as your primary ball handler. Reggie simply didn't have those things in his game. He was also much more athletic than Reggie.

Ray started playing more like Reggie in Boston when he was past his prime, and did it as well as Reggie did, except he was still a better finisher and ball handler.

Neither were good defenders, imo, but outside of defense, Ray was more of a complete player in Milwaukee and Seattle.

Nothing against Reggie either, I can give him credit for being such a good shooter, often raising his game in the playoffs and big moments, and it is nice to have a guy who will score 20+ playing off the ball so much. It worked really well when Indiana got to the finals because they had a 1 on 1 scorer to go with him(Jalen Rose), a true point guard(Mark Jackson) and a post scorer(Rik Smits). You can't have too many people who need the ball.

Reggie could light it up, he averaged 25 ppg on 51/41/87 shooting % in '90, and 20 ppg in '94 with percentages of 50/42/91.

And his extended playoff runs were impressive too. 26 ppg in 17 games to the ECF in '95, 24 ppg in 22 playoff games to the finals in '00, 23 ppg in 16 playoff games to the ECF in '94, and 20 ppg in 16 and 13 games respectively to the '98 and '99 ECF.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Ray wasn't that good or capable in those two aspects of the game but he was certainly better than Reggie at it.

I don't think people realize how stacked and good Reggie's Pacers were. I hate how everybody is giving Reggie all the credit for leading those Pacers teams to the playoffs and going deep in the playoffs occasionally and acting as if he did it all by himself. Reggie's teammates were very good and they were much better than the teammates Ray was playing before he joined the Celtics.

Well, Ray's Bucks were pretty talented from '00-'02 when they had the big 3, plus another talented scorer in Tim Thomas coming off the bench, and they added Anthony Mason in '02, while Michael Redd was also becoming a scoring threat off the bench.

Last edited by ShaqAttack3234 : 05-15-2012 at 05:54 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:16 AM   #25
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

Reggie Miller was natural born killer. He was still killing it at old age. He was 34 years old when he led his team to finals. 24 ppg during playoffs including 24.3 ppg in finals.

He killed Ray Allen in 2000 playoffs in 5th game (back then it was 5 game series)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eOuUO0lif4

Reggie : 41 points (%60)
Allen: 18 points (%27)

Pacers : 3 Bucks : 2
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:50 AM   #26
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

Pleeeeeasssee.... for Ray Allens game/gamestyle to exist there had to be Reggie Miller and hence Reggie Miller has to come first, he is the ORIGINAL.. the best one....
Ray has said (and Rip Hamilton) multiple times that he patterned his game after Reggie, that he "stole" all Reggies moves especially of the ball movement, screen tricks, how to get open and so on... Reggie was by extremly far the best of the ball/screen abusing/catch n shoot player in basketball history, Michael Jordan has said that to... you will never see somebody as good as him in that department, he had so many tricks up his sleeve to get open, running around and around like a marathon runner, grabbing his own teammate who set the screen to lever himself around him at the opposite side, hesitating all over the court between the screens/players in and out, left, right, up, down, spin, flop, spin, frustrate you, using your own teammates as screens, exhaust you, spit at you, hit a J over and over, trashtalk and so on... it was freakin scientific, it was ART watching him work without the ball...

There is a reason Kobe said: "Reggie is the hardest player i ever had to guard".. and that says alot considering he did guard Michael Jordan aswell..

For you who say Ray Allen was a more complete player, watch some of Reggies games when he was in his athletic prime from 1987-1992, you know, the fade Reggie... he was very quick, fast, deceptive, dunking on everybody, creating his own baskets over and over and was a better man to man defender than Ray Allen during that time aswell....

Reggie was also a MUCH better clutch player, Ray Allen is great in that department, but what Reggie did was matched ONLY by Michael Jordan & Larry Bird..........

Last but not least, when talking about shooting... Reggie was a better shooter because Reggie was a much more versatile shooter, he had a better shooting arsenal....... Ray Allen is more of a set shooter/standstill shooter, with that i mean he is not comfortable taking of balance shots, infact Ray Allen is a very bad of balance shooter (notice that next time you see him play during any time of his career).......... Ray Allen wants to go straight UP and shoulders/body faced towards the rim at all times when he shoots during any situation......... but Reggie? Reggie basically made his shots at that ridicilous percentage from any god damn range taking Kobe Bryant / Michael Jordan type of fadeaway/of balance shots.... Reggie made his shots however you wanted it, runners, floaters, hooks, left handed-right handed, skoops, you name it....

This is for the same exact reason Larry Bird was also a better shooter than Ray Allen.......

Last edited by pauk : 05-15-2012 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:56 AM   #27
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

Quote:
Pleeeeeasssee.... for Ray Allens game/gamestyle to exist there had to be Reggie Miller and hence Reggie Miller has to come first, he is the ORIGINAL.. the best one....

Nope. Being the first one to do something doesn't mean you're the best one. That's a logical fallcy right there.

Seeing as your reasoning is based on a faulty premise right off the bat, the rest of your reasoning is equaly bad.

Try again kiddo.
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:58 AM   #28
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

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Originally Posted by Punpun
Nope. Being the first one to do something doesn't mean you're the best one. That's a logical fallcy right there.

Seeing as your reasoning is based on a faulty premise right off the bat, the rest of your reasoning is equaly bad.

Try again kiddo.

Sure... but in Reggies case HE WAS THE BEST ONE........ at Shooting-Guard he was the best SHOOTER/OF THE BALL/SCREEN/CATCH-N-SHOOT player ever...

No you try again...................... "kiddo"... actually, you didnt even try... i didnt see any "reasoning" from you? Just a disagreement...

Last edited by pauk : 05-15-2012 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:00 AM   #29
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Default Re: Reggie Miller VS Ray Allen

I criticized your reasoning son. If you didn't see any reasoning, that's because yours was faulty.

Harsh isn't it ?

(You will have to back up that claim son.)
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:02 AM   #30
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