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Old 04-12-2012, 02:35 PM   #31
Phong
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

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Originally Posted by kaiteng
Blake is still Stern's dear boy so unless it is too obvious he will never be called for any offensive fouls.
It is already so obvious to anybody who has eyes.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

Wow 3rd page and clippersfan hasn't gone in this thread and ranted.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #33
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

Um find me a dunk where the guy isnt sticking his arm on the defender while doing a one hand dunk. Its a natural reflex to protect their own self and helps with momentum. You guys(Laker/kobe homers) need to find better shit to complain about.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:01 PM   #34
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

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Originally Posted by DropStep
Um find me a dunk where the guy isnt sticking his arm on the defender while doing a one hand dunk. Its a natural reflex to protect their own self and helps with momentum. You guys(Laker/kobe homers) need to find better shit to complain about.
Like others have said it is one thing to put out your arm in anticipation of contact it is another to do that and make contact with the defenders arms on their attempt to block the shot
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:01 PM   #35
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

Quote:
Originally Posted by DropStep
Um find me a dunk where the guy isnt sticking his arm on the defender while doing a one hand dunk. Its a natural reflex to protect their own self and helps with momentum. You guys(Laker/kobe homers) need to find better shit to complain about.

Last edited by Phong : 04-12-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:02 PM   #36
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

Not Vince too!


To be completely up front and honest though, there is a distinct difference between one-hand dunks jumping off one foot, one-hand dunks off two-feet while square to the basket, and one-hand dunks off two-feet while perpendicular to the rack. In the first two instances, a person's off-arm will most likely not be between a player and the rim. Each of the examples posted above by Phong are dunks where the body is square to the basket. As such, off-arms will not come into play.

Meanwhile, when a player elevates and places their body perpendicular (which is a rightful and legal move), the off-arm suddenly comes in motion and forthright as a part of the natural move, as opposed to being a conscious attempt to elbow someone in the face.

To be bluntly honest, the off-arm only tends to get noticed when a defender is significantly lower and out of position than the dunker to begin with. This is what places the forearm in position to come in contact with a head rather than body (as would be the case if defender were level with dunker). Some folks tend to take the angle of "He only dunked it because he elbowed a guy in the head" when my feeling is more "He only elbowed a guy in the head because the defender was so helpless and low in comparison to begin with." For example:

MJ on Tripucka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMf3ZVM7yx4

James on Jones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpg94pu1AMs&feature=fvst

Baron Davis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZI8bweTeBA

To be completely up front and fair, I find this to be a natural and legal motion. To punish anything but those who go extremely out of their way to elbow someone on a clear out would be similar to punishing someone for lifting their knee in the air on a layup attempt and hitting an opponent (a la Tom Chambers). It's a natural motion to a specific type of takeoff.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 04-12-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:03 PM   #37
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

phong with the double dose of ether
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:15 PM   #38
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

I love all of these nit-picking threads, really enjoying them. Pretty soon we'll have a thread of people pissed at the way Blake wipes his ass.



Man, why push off Blake!
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:37 PM   #39
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

A flopper and now a fouler. Dang!
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:38 PM   #40
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

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A flopper and now a fouler. Dang!

Yup! Definitely reason to become the most hated on player in the NBA.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:39 PM   #41
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phong
I was thinking twice about this one because Griffin's clearly squared to the rack, but photos often offer only 1/100th of the truth, which in this case was that Griffin initially rose for a two-hand dunk before switching to one to avoid the defense. The off-hand did not have an affect, intentionally or unintentionally, on Humphries' contest and typically I don't think it'd be there on a squared up slam unless the situation occurred as it did (beginning as a two-hander): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJjaqINUjIo
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:30 PM   #42
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls



@ Blake's hand actually GRAB the defenders arm

He'd foul at at Rucker Park before he'll ever foul out of an NBA game
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:56 PM   #43
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

Quote:
Originally Posted by BGriffin's Dad
most players stick out their off-hand when they go up for a dunk, its a natural motion when you're dunking... and when there's a little contact on the off-hand it doesn't automatically mean it's a foul... has to actually be a clear-out where the dunker pushes

b-b-b-but it's natural motion!
























that shit aint natural dude, It's a cheap move that some players do to sneak a bump on the defender to improve the odds that they won't be rejected, and these new (lack of) defensive contact rules favor them getting a call over the defender. But it's always been minimal contact, just enough to fool gullible fans into thinking it's all purely incidental, (as all sneaky moves should appear at first glance).

The Golden Boy takes cheap play and obvious ref favortism to a level unseen since Shaq's elbows to the face, and shoulder dip offensive fouls. Blake is "incidentally" grabbing arms, elbowing throats, and stiff-arming the shit out of everyone on virtually every dunk like he's the NBA's greatest football player of all time. And yet when someone body checks his ass to return the favor they get ejected and the Clippers fans start crying getting their panties in a knot because it was "dangerous" and bwake gwiffin coulda got hurt!

Last edited by CavaliersFTW : 04-12-2012 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:26 PM   #44
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

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Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
that shit aint natural dude
I would say refer to my post with the Vince Carter picture for a deeper explanation on that front. All one-handed dunks are not created equal. I'm not sure who can dunk on this message board and who can't, but I think even if one has just goofed around on a lowered bucket, it'd probably be relatively easy to notice what happens to one's off arm when dunking perpendicular to the rack (as opposed to slamming with body directly facing the rim).

To be completely honest, you probably don't even need a rim to mimic this action. I honestly just gave it a shot while walking down the hallway. If I mimic a slam while facing the basket, off-hand won't be in front. But if I tilt my jump a la Blake and vintage breakaway alley-oop catching Vince, the off-arm's naturally arising.

Here is what that jumping like that looks like without a defender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnVC_t2ufR4#t=0m16s

To further illustrate, here's an example three different types of Russell Westbrook dunks. And surely, I wouldn't expect three examples from one dunker to fully convince you. But I find these to be good indicators:

1. One hand, one foot (thus no arm lead): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq15yGbop7k#t=0m32s

2. One hand, two feet, squared (off-arm raised but not leading): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzpaSeIbpLQ

3. One hand, two feet, leaning (off-arm leads by nature): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY-pw-Qs9vw#t=0m16s

To be clear, this doesn't mean Griffin has never been able to simultaneously clear someone out with an off-arm. I'm pretty sure we've all been guilty of it at some point. My stance is more or less that the arm in that specific dunk motion, is coming up no matter what. It's not a matter of a player consciously saying, "You know what? I'm going to lift up my arm and beat someone with it."

The biggest difference I've seen between Blake's dunks and many normal dunkers, is he drops a heavy hammer.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 04-12-2012 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:28 PM   #45
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Default Re: Most of Griffin's wind-up Dunks are Offensive Fouls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
I would say refer to my post with the Vince Carter picture for a deeper explanation on that front. All one-handed dunks are not created equal. I'm not sure who can dunk on this message board and who can't, but I think even if one has just goofed around on a lowered bucket, it'd probably be relatively easy to notice what happens to one's arm when dunking perpendicular to the rack (as opposed to slamming with body directly facing the rim).

To be completely honest, you probably don't even need a rim to mimic this action. I honestly just gave it a shot while walking down the hallway. If I mimic a slam while facing the basket, off-hand won't be in front. But if I tilt my jump a la Blake and vintage breakaway alley-oop catching Vince, the off-arm's naturally arising.

Here is what that jumping like that looks like without a defender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnVC_t2ufR4#t=0m16s

It's a balancing reaction/mechanism. You're completely right.
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