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Old 07-15-2013, 02:42 PM   #6616
97 bulls
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
I guess it depends on what you consider starting a physical fight. Zim who verbally questioned Trayvon. Or according to Zim's account, Trayvon who threw the first punch.

There were no marks on trayvon indicating he got punched.

I would never do what Zim did, but he didn't necessarily go pick a fight with trayvon. According to him he went to investigate a recent string of robberies. And got punched. Its not against the law to follow someone and ask them questions on public property.

And yes the prosecution had to explain the injuries. Not doing so really did a disservice to Trayvon. Zim never disputed he followed trayvon, he never disputed he shot trayvon. The crux of the whole trial was if it was self defense or not. Zim decided to forego a stand your ground defense, instead he decided to argue a traditional self defense claim. The prosecution by ignoring the injuries basically let Zim's account of self defense stand.
I disagree. The only important fact is how it started. Not who was winning. The confrontation began because Zimmerman went behind those houses looking for Martin. Martin demands to know why hes being followed. Which any sane person woukd want ti know. And Zimmerman reaches for his phone in his pocket. Or Jacket. Again, I ask, how is Martin supposed to know hes not reaching for a weapon?

The way I see it. Zimmerman thinks hes fighting a burglar, Martin thinks hes fighting a racists trying to do him harm. If Zimmerman identifies himself and doesn't reach for anything, this is either a non inssue or id feel Martin was the aggressor. Zimmerman never shoukdve reached for anything.

Hiw many times have the police shot and killed people for that exact reason?
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:44 PM   #6617
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
I disagree. The only important fact is how it started. Not who was winning. The confrontation began because Zimmerman went behind those houses looking for Martin. Martin demands to know why hes being followed. Which any sane person woukd want ti know. And Zimmerman reaches for his phone in his pocket. Or Jacket. Again, I ask, how is Martin supposed to know hes not reaching for a weapon?

The way I see it. Zimmerman thinks hes fighting a burglar, Martin thinks hes fighting a racists trying to do him harm. If Zimmerman identifies himself and doesn't reach for anything, this is either a non inssue or id feel Martin was the aggressor. Zimmerman never shoukdve reached for anything.

Hiw many times have the police shot and killed people for that exact reason?

Great post. I've yet to see someone defend why Zimmerman wouldn't identify himself as the neighbourhood watch. If this happened and Trayvon still attacked him the story would be a lot more clear cut.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:47 PM   #6618
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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I suspect he went because he assumed based on Trayvon's appearance (racial profiling) and the fact that he had not seen him previously that trayvon was a criminal. The truth is trayvon was going back to his dad's residence after buying skittles and ice tea. I consider what happens next tragic, but based on the trial I believe Zim killed trayvon in self defense.
Right. Self defense because he was getting his ass kicked.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:50 PM   #6619
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Right. Self defense because he was getting his ass kicked.

Well to be honest MavsSuperFan is just going based on the evidence or lack of evidence in court and Zimmerman's story. Who knows the full story, but judging by his actions and past history I'm willing to lean on the side that Zimmerman wanted to initiate a confrontation that night and got more than he bargained for.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:54 PM   #6620
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by longtime lurker
Well to be honest MavsSuperFan is just going based on the evidence or lack of evidence in court and Zimmerman's story. Who knows the full story, but judging by his actions and past history I'm willing to lean on the side that Zimmerman wanted to initiate a confrontation that night and got more than he bargained for.
IF you look at Zimmerman's past history then you have to take an honest appraisal of Martin's.

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Right. Self defense because he was getting his ass kicked.
That's usually when self defense comes into play.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:56 PM   #6621
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by ace23
Not a good comparison.

There's just no reason for Zimmerman to have left the car in my mind other than to confront Trayvon. It's not just the fact that he left his car; it's that there seems to be no reason for him to do so - we're forced to fill in the blanks. It was the prosecution's job to do so with evidence - they didn't. Oh well.
He gave his reason: to check what road he was on. I don't know the road names of the roads around mine, so i don't see why Zimmerman should.

There's no reason for me to want to go for a drive randomly - does not mean i meant to run said person over. It is exactly the same faulty logic which would not hold up in a courtroom anywhere in the world.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:56 PM   #6622
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
I suspect he went because he assumed based on Trayvon's appearance (racial profiling) and the fact that he had not seen him previously that trayvon was a criminal. The truth is trayvon was going back to his dad's residence after buying skittles and ice tea. I consider what happens next tragic, but based on the trial I believe Zim killed trayvon in self defense.

I don't believe it was strictly because of his race, rather because he fit the description of the perpetrators of the recent string of home invasions of his neighbors, the fact that he had never seen him before, and that he though he was acting suspicious. If the the perpetrators of the recent string of home invasions were Hispanic or White's in their late teens, and George observed and reported a Hispanic or White teenager as he was on his way to the store, would it still be considered 'racial profiling?"

I mean based on what we know about George, he's Afro-Peruvian, he self identifies as Hispanic based on his voter registration, and his brother Robert said himself that they identify as being Hispanic, George mentored two black teenagers for free, and he's a registered Democrat and voted for Obama, do you think he would profile somebody as a criminal ONLY because they're black, or rather because they fit a description, he never seen him in his neighborhood before and he thought they were acting suspicious?

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Old 07-15-2013, 03:02 PM   #6623
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Dresta
He gave his reason: to check what road he was on. I don't know the road names of the roads around mine, so i don't see why Zimmerman should.

There's no reason for me to want to go for a drive randomly - does not mean i meant to run said person over. It is exactly the same faulty logic which would not hold up in a courtroom anywhere in the world.
Because he'd been patrolling this street for the past year.

Either way, there's reasonable doubt since Zimmerman is the only one other than Trayvon who witnessed the whole thing. We'll never know who really initiated the altercation. Just hard to get a conviction in this case when "not guilty" is the null.

And going for a drive randomly is not the same as getting out of a car when there happens to be a "suspicious" person in the vicinity. No.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:02 PM   #6624
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Dresta
He gave his reason: to check what road he was on. I don't know the road names of the roads around mine, so i don't see why Zimmerman should.

There are only 3 streets in Zimmerman's complex where he lived for 4 years and was the head of the neighborhood watch, come on man. Even in the recreation he knew the name of the street he couldn't remember a few hours before. And why did he feel he had to get an address from a street he wasn't parked on, in a direction that Trayvon hadn't run to (and he jumped out of his car a second after saying 'oh shit, he's running!'). And then when prompted by the dispatcher to tell him the address, his response was 'could you have [the police] call me, and I'll tell them where I'm at'.

Really?

And I'd love to finally get an answer to the question I posted above. Can't be that difficult to answer, right? I mean there must be a logical reason why a kid walking home to watch the NBA all star game with a fruit drink and candy in hand would all of a sudden transform, unprovoked obviously, into a bloodthirsty murderous werewolf.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:08 PM   #6625
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by daily
IF you look at Zimmerman's past history then you have to take an honest appraisal of Martin's.

One's a kid who does stupid kid stuff unless he has criminal record that wasn't presented to the public. Trayvon was just minding his own business.

The other is a grown adult that has repeatedly had aggression issues as an adult and kept ignored the advice of the 911 operator.

Unless Trayvon has a criminal record or was carrying weapons on him all this stuff about his past history is only relevant if you believe Zimmerman's version of events is the only version.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:09 PM   #6626
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
There are only 3 streets in Zimmerman's complex where he lived for 4 years and was the head of the neighborhood watch, come on man. Even in the recreation he knew the name of the street he couldn't remember a few hours before. And why did he feel he had to get an address from a street he wasn't parked on, in a direction that Trayvon hadn't run to (and he jumped out of his car a second after saying 'oh shit, he's running!'). And then when prompted by the dispatcher to tell him the address, his response was 'could you have [the police] call me, and I'll tell them where I'm at'.

Really?

And I'd love to finally get an answer to the question I posted above. Can't be that difficult to answer, right? I mean there must be a logical reason why a kid walking home to watch the NBA all star game with a fruit drink and candy in hand would all of a sudden transform, unprovoked obviously, into a bloodthirsty murderous werewolf.
Because there is no reason to know the road names. I know where the roads around me go, but i never look at the names because they are of no use to me. Not knowing the street names is not a crime, again.

Nice hyperbole. He didn't 'transform into a werewolf' but he clearly beat the shit out of Zimmerman - that is FACT. He was known to have a violent character, yet you portray him as a 'kid' with candy and fruit juice. Who is being biased here, seriously?
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:15 PM   #6627
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
mean there must be a logical reason why a kid walking home to watch the NBA all star game with a fruit drink and candy in hand would all of a sudden transform, unprovoked obviously, into a bloodthirsty murderous werewolf.


Irrelevant, but the Watermelon Arizona fruit drink and skittles were two of the ingredients he used to make the codeine lean/“watermellon sizzurp,” (The drink is made using Arizona watermelon juice, Robitussin or Codeine syrup, and a few skittles or jolly rancher candies as Trayvon described on Facebook. He also said he wanted to fight somebody again because "he didn't bleed enough" and I suspect that after he made it home, Precious provoked him go beat that "creppy ass cracka's" ass who was following him.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:19 PM   #6628
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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The State, police, and even the defense are all on record that Trayvon Martin hid from Zimmerman after running away from him (most likely after realizing the creepy guy stalking him was now out of his car chasing after him). So that's Trayvon's alibi for what he was doing during that time span.

Anyone care to refute this?
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:19 PM   #6629
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

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Originally Posted by Dresta
Because there is no reason to know the road names. I know where the roads around me go, but i never look at the names because they are of no use to me. Not knowing the street names is not a crime, again.

Again, there are only 3 streets in the neighborhood where Zimmerman lived in for 4 years and was the neighborhood watch captain. There were well lit addresses that Zim could've easily spotted without having to leave his car. The street he claims he went to was neither near where his car was parked nor in the direction where he claimed Trayvon ran.

He wants you to believe that he jumped out of his car a second after saying 'oh shit, he's running!' so he could get said address that he never gave to dispatch... despite the fact that he admitted he was following the kid?

I knew there was some gullible people out there. History has taught us that you can get mass amounts of people to believe in the most blatant made up bullshit imaginable, so I guess it shouldn't shock me that there are some who actually buy this story.

Quote:
Nice hyperbole. He didn't 'transform into a werewolf' but he clearly beat the shit out of Zimmerman - that is FACT. He was known to have a violent character, yet you portray him as a 'kid' with candy and fruit juice. Who is being biased here, seriously?

How am I being biased by 'portraying' Trayvon as a kid with candy and fruit juice? That's exactly what he was- a kid 'casually walking in the rain' as Zim put it, with candy and a fruit juice in his pockets. Where is the bias?

And you say he was 'known to be a violent character'... by whom exactly? Zim was known to be a violent character and child molester... would make sense for a kid walking alone to be frightened of a child molesting, violent, gun-toting vigilante.

You still haven't told me what the kid's motive would be for randomly trying to kill the stranger he had just run away from who admitted he was following the kid.

Any time you're ready.
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:20 PM   #6630
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Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Getting out of the car can't be compared to randomly going for a drive since your potential victim is not in sight in that hypothetical.

That's a really bad comparison.
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