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Old 07-16-2015, 01:55 AM   #1
orange_chicken
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Default Magic Johnson.....

Is Magic Johnson that good or was the team he played with just too stacked? Also, when the Bulls beated Magic and his Lakers in the finals is it because he was past his prime, didn't have enough help, or got his offense exposed?
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

beated
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:59 AM   #3
LAZERUSS
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by orange_chicken
Is Magic Johnson that good or was the team he played with just too stacked? Also, when the Bulls beated Magic and his Lakers in the finals is it because he was past his prime, didn't have enough help, or got his offense exposed?

Here you go...

Quote:
Now let's actually put in a PEAK Magic, and not some way-past-his-prime Magic that carried a shell of what had been a dynasty in the 80's, past a peak Blazer team in the WCF's, and then up against a peak Jordan (and with Pippen being the one to slow him down), with his stacked roster that wiped out Magic's rapidly declining, and injury-plagued roster in the '91 Finals.

How about Magic at HIS PEAK, in 86-87.

First, MJ vs. Magic...

MJ: 37.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, .429 FG%, .875 FT%, .474 TS%
Magic: 29.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 12.5 apg, .500 FG%, .933 FT%, .563 TS%.
Oh, and 2-0 W-L


MJ vs. Boston in regular season, and Magic vs. Boston in regular season:

MJ: 29.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 4.8 apg, .428 FG%, .820 FT%
Magic: 35.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 9.0 rpg, .556 FG%, .864 FT%


How about MJ vs, Boston, and Magic vs. Boston in that same post-season:

MJ: 35.7 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.0 apg, .417 FG%, .817 FT%, .529 TS%
Magic: 26.2 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 13.0 apg, .541 FG%, .960 FT%, .590 TS%

Oh, and MJ's Bulls vs. Boston in the playoffs... 0-3
Magic's Lakers vs. Boston in the Finals... 4-2

BTW, MJ in his '87 season averaged a career high 37.1 ppg. And yet a PEAK Magic was FAR greater.


Another point.

Magic's Laker played teams like the Sixers from the first half of the 80's, the Bad Boys from the last half of the 80's, and the Celtics for the entire decade of the 80's. He took his team to EIGHT Finals, and won FIVE rings in that decade, and beat the peak Sixers twice, the peak Bad Boys once, and the peak Celtics, twice.

Compare that with MJ's 90's run.

He finally beat a washed-up Pistons team, and then a washed-up Lakers team in the '91 playoffs and Finals.

He beat a 57-25 Blazers team in the '92 Finals, with the same roster that somehow Magic beat the year before when they went 63-19.

He beat a defenseless Suns team in the '93 Finals.

Oh, and how good was his rosters in the 90's? His '94 team, with the legendary Pete Myers replacing him, went 55-27, which was deceptive, since Pippen missed 10 games, as well as other teammates missing games. They could easily have won 60+ games. And it was too bad, too, since they did not have HCA against a 56-26 Knicks team that they took to a close and controversial seven game series...the same Knicks team that lost a close game seven to the 58-24 Rockets in the Finals (and outscored them BTW.)

Then, they basically replaced Grant with Rodman, and Paxson with Kerr, and won three more titles.

MJ's '96 Bulls beat a Sonics team with Payton and Kemp, and not much else, in a series in which MJ averaged 27 ppg on a .415 FG%.

Then MJ's Bulls beat the Stockton-Malone Jazz in two straight Finals, in series in which MJ shot .455 and .427.


Think about this...

Was there ANY team that MJ faced in the 90's that was even remotely close to the Sixers, Pistons, Celtics, and Lakers in the 80's?

I can safely make this claim...MJ's 90's Bulls don't go 6-8 in the 80's. Hell, they might not have won a ring in that decade.
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

Best Laker player of all time. Lakers never missed the playoffs when he was playing for them.
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:00 AM   #5
Round Mound
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by orange_chicken
Is Magic Johnson that good or was the team he played with just too stacked? Also, when the Bulls beated Magic and his Lakers in the finals is it because he was past his prime, didn't have enough help, or got his offense exposed?

He Was Great and His Teamates Where Great. Both Elements. By 1991 Lakers Where Not Favorites To Go To The Finals But Magic Took Them There. By 91 Scottie Pippen Was The Best 2nd Option In the NBA and He Did Tire Off Magic a Bit (Thereby His Low Shooting %) But Lets Remember That Worthy and Scott Where Both Injured. Infact I Believe They Didnt Play The Whole Series. Magic Had Great Teamates But He Himself Was Great. Ofcourse That Bulls Team Would Have Never One Against A 1987 and Prior Laker Teams With Jabbar.
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:09 AM   #6
Sportal
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

Haha, did you watch that documentary called "The Announcement" recently too?

From what I could gather on the questions I asked a couple of days ago...

The Lakers were really fazing out, they were the 8th seed that year, and the year following Magic's retirement from basketball activities, the Lakers went like 39-43 and still made the 8th seed in the Playoffs. But the year in which Magic made the Finals to play Jordan, they actually beat the #1 seed Blazers as the 8th seed, like, sounded like a big upset.

One of my questions were "would have Magic possibly kept Jordan from 3-peating?". The answer would have been no, not with the team the Lakers had during those times, unless they re-tooled.
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:09 AM   #7
kennethgriffin
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

magic wasnt the most polished. but he was a great basketball player


average athleticism
average jumpshot
poor defense


but


great passing
great post ups
great rebounding
great leader
great clutch
great winner




so the positives outweighed the negatives

the lakers dont win anything without him. we all saw how they were in the 70's with kareem and other good players.... no leadership... no floor general



cant have a team full of allstars and not have anyone to control them
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

He was a great top 5 PG but overrated.
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:15 AM   #9
HighFlyer23
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

Top 10, bottom half

Ultimately overrated because fans and the media loved him
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

lol Magic has one game at center, makes a famous hook shot from the post and people act like this was some huge part of Magic's game.

About 5% of this forum watched Magic play live, or have taken the time to watch his games available on the net. This myth that he used the post up as some kind of strength needs to stop. He had a post game, pretending it was legendary levels needs to stop though.
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:21 AM   #11
WorldWarriors
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by orange_chicken
Is Magic Johnson that good or was the team he played with just too stacked? Also, when the Bulls beated Magic and his Lakers in the finals is it because he was past his prime, didn't have enough help, or got his offense exposed?
Magic is one of my favorite basketball players of all time. The Lakers squad was also well put together. But Magic is a player that kind of gets lost in the conversation when we discuss the all time greats. He was a fearless floor general. He totally ran it and put the "show" in showtime. By the time the Bulls made it to the finals vs. the Lakers, Magic had already been in the league a decade and had 5 rings. Definitely on the downside of his career.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigVeto
He was a great top 5 PG but overrated.


Top 5? Try #1 undisputed.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:36 AM   #13
nzahir
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

Top 5 all time.
Mj, KAJ, Bird/Magic(i think I lean towards bird) and then shaq.
Most triple doubles in the finals, 3 fmvps, he retired at 31(before coming back) and put up 19.5 and 12.5 with 7 boards that last year.
Even as he aged he could always have his post game b/c he was 6'9 and could always pass.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:48 AM   #14
Young X
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
lol Magic has one game at center, makes a famous hook shot from the post and people act like this was some huge part of Magic's game.

About 5% of this forum watched Magic play live, or have taken the time to watch his games available on the net. This myth that he used the post up as some kind of strength needs to stop. He had a post game, pretending it was legendary levels needs to stop though.
In his later years it was a big part of his game.

How else do you think he was so effective as he got older? He wasn't quick, didn't have any spectacular dribble moves in the halfcourt (Hardaway, Thomas) and wasn't really a big PNR player (Stockton).

You think he just ran the fast break all day? No, he also used his size against smaller guards in the post and either scored on them easily or forced teams to double him.
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Old 07-16-2015, 05:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: Magic Johnson.....

He was great while also playing for great teams, with great teammates... Let's leave it at that.

He was still great in 1991 but the team was falling apart due to injuries, players retiring... Couldn't really compete ALL the way, when you see what happened down the line.

Magic's clearly the GOAT PG, and AT THE VERY LEAST really close to the top5.
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